00:00:06.940 - 00:00:19.680

welcome all of you to this opportunity for us to visit once again with our dear friend and colleague and professor of the reverend dr Blair Mony, who is in his fifth year, is that right? Fifth

00:00:19.680 - 00:00:36.300

year, fifth year sitting in the Lewis and kip Zbinden, Distinguished Chair of pastoral ministry and leadership. When the parishioners of First Presbyterian Church in san Antonio , said an appreciative farewell to their longtime pastor,

00:00:36.310 - 00:00:51.550

Lewis Zbinden, they honored him and his wife kip by establishing an endowed chair here at the seminary in their name. It was a unique chair. I don't know of another chair like this in a presbyterian

00:00:51.550 - 00:01:07.280

seminary, it is a chair which is to be occupied according to the the language of the gift by a best practices pastor, preferably from a multi staff church who at the end of his or her pastoral

00:01:07.280 - 00:01:23.390

career has accumulated the gifts and graces to model and teach the pastoral arts at Austin Seminary. Larry came to us upon his retirement at Preston Hollow Presbyterian Church in Dallas and like louis abandon. He had served

00:01:23.400 - 00:01:38.160

his church for many, many years when he graduated from Princeton Seminary, he went straight into the parish and served in pennsylvania and New Jersey. Uh, we're accepting the call to Preston Hollow. His wife

00:01:38.160 - 00:01:52.480

Cindy, I'm so glad you're here, Cindy. Uh, Cindy is here today. He and Cindy were beloved across their tenure at Preston Hollow and were beloved beyond Preston Hollow throughout the city of Dallas and

00:01:52.480 - 00:02:04.110

across the greater Church. In my time here at Austin Seminary. I have been blessed to call Blair a dear friend and a confidant on so many occasions , both while he was still at Preston Hollow and

00:02:04.110 - 00:02:16.160

certainly while he has been here, he served as a board member at this seminary. He led in many denominational efforts. He currently serves on the board at Princeton Seminary and as I surveys in in New

00:02:16.160 - 00:02:35.980

Jersey, right, it's a it's a small startup seminary that we love. We love President Seminary were indebted to Princeton Seminary. Uh but uh as I survey the pastoral influence that Blair has had wherever he

00:02:35.980 - 00:02:52.510

has served, including this place, I am struck by his intellect. Blair is a voracious reader across a wide variety of topics. I am struck by his wisdom and leadership, exemplified by his capacity to

00:02:52.510 - 00:03:09.730

listen and empathize with and love people across the proverbial spectrum. I'm struck by his passion for things that matter and by his often courageous capacity to stand as an ally with those desiring a larger, wider and

00:03:09.730 - 00:03:24.330

more inclusive church last year, is Blair dealt with his illness. He still made room in time to host a series of conversations like this one promises to be. He moderated those conversations and welcome to different

00:03:24.330 - 00:03:38.150

guests each time. And as he and I visited about this occasion, I suggested why don't you let me moderate and you be the guest. We began to envision this moment as an opportunity for Blair to

00:03:38.150 - 00:03:51.160

reflect with you on the pastoral life his and yours near the end of the hour, it's gonna be my intent to throw this conversation open to you for questions or comments that you might want to make.

00:03:51.540 - 00:04:03.750

But first let's hear from Blair there, we've missed you, fill us in on the challenges you've been dealing with and how do you see that relating to this conversation we're having today about pastoral care. I

00:04:03.750 - 00:04:23.420

said to dr Wardlaw that you've got a problem with this position because my dear friend Casey told me was in a before me and ended up with a case of cancer. And lo and behold it's a repeat

00:04:23.420 - 00:04:42.460

performance. So um anyway, that has been true for me. Him for what it's worth. Yeah . I have experienced the fact that answer can be a gift. That was not something I was,

00:04:42.470 - 00:04:57.610

I was ready for a book by the way that I recommend to you by a united Methodist pastor outside of Washington, D. C. By the name of Jason MMA kelly entitles who by the way was

00:04:57.740 - 00:05:18.110

diagnosed with States for what kind of cancer is. But he wrote a book called Cancer is Funny and it really is. There was something about the book that just grabbed me and it's irreverent and reverend at

00:05:18.110 - 00:05:40.120

the same time and I liked literature like that. Mhm. Um anyway, so I've been dealing with this since about June of 2017 at which time I was dealing with a few gastrointestinal issues like we all

00:05:40.120 - 00:05:57.800

do now and then and was referred to a not a doctor by my oncologist. And they found, and I remember the moment exactly when they woke me up and said, well we've found something in your

00:05:57.810 - 00:06:27.360

pancreas bev. I said well that's interesting. Um from there on it's been a challenge in some ways , in some strange ways of gift and in some strange and wonderful ways, millions of experiencing God.

00:06:28.650 - 00:06:45.910

I never thought that pancreatic cancer was one of the ways that we were supposed to experience. God turns out it was wrong. What I discovered was that it actually is a gift. Why is that I

00:06:45.920 - 00:07:10.050

didn't expect or no part of this I should explain was in early june when I suddenly had a series of mini strokes, the during that time was in the hospital briefly and then out of the hospital.

00:07:10.740 - 00:07:29.310

Um if I appeared to search for a word now and then, that has to do with it. Yeah, sometimes I can I can preach like a preacher and sometimes I struggle. So if you hear

00:07:29.310 - 00:07:55.970

me struggle, that's what that's about. Um Anyway , the gift has been in some ways a magnificent gift. That's something that is a surprise. Um talk to us a bit about pastoral balance, pastoral

00:07:55.980 - 00:08:11.280

rhythms after all, we design our lives around rhythms , the rhythms of the week. The rhythms of the year were yeah, driven by a liturgical rhythm that takes us every year from advent to Pentecost and

00:08:11.280 - 00:08:24.860

beyond the rhythms of a pastoral chapter in a congregation , the rhythms of sunday morning, maybe even the relentlessness of sunday morning. What is your wisdom and all of that? I'm just throwing out some large

00:08:24.870 - 00:08:48.730

topics, but reflect on that is from your own experience for the pastors here, I'm looking at you man, uhh Mhm. Do you notice that there are times when people um get harder to deal with

00:08:48.740 - 00:09:07.050

? I've noticed that for years and I could never understand why it was that there were sometimes when people just are hard, hard to deal with. There's that rhythm um there is the rhythm of uh huh

00:09:09.140 - 00:09:22.350

going through the day to day of ministry. One book that I want to recommend to you, That's a very old book, but I'm into old things now, including myself, um is called The Shape

00:09:22.350 - 00:09:39.740

of Sunday, anybody ever see it? It's a wonderful book and it's a biography of the of the life of Lloyd C Douglas, who wrote The Big fisherman and the robe and everything he wrote after he

00:09:39.740 - 00:09:54.730

retired, was a best seller. Wouldn't that be nice, helps, helps the board of pensions? Uh Anyway, In this book was the nice thing is the book is written by his two daughters and

00:09:54.730 - 00:10:11.050

I have two daughters. So reading it was immensely instructive to me because I was seeing my own life , I was seeing their lives. Um, and one of the things they said was that there was

00:10:11.240 - 00:10:33.450

there were times when they could recognize the rhythm of the of the year and the rhythm of the week in each passing round of weeks. And that included that the experience of going through the week recognizing that

00:10:35.040 - 00:10:50.750

b um the rhythm of the week included. You want to know what it's like to glitch this is it? I think I know what you're about to say, because we talked about this. The rhythm

00:10:50.750 - 00:11:11.500

intensified towards sunday. Yes, thank you very much for listening. Yes. That they recognized that something happened as the week went on. And that was that as ted said that there there was an intensity

00:11:11.510 - 00:11:31.330

that grew and grew as the week went on. And and because of that, and this is something for pastors to recognize uh there is a sense in which their father was more and more or less and

00:11:31.330 - 00:11:56.410

less, I should say, available to them. Mhm. And more and more available to the congregation . And so that went on until sunday came and all that that entails. And that with sunday came

00:11:56.410 - 00:12:15.990

the intensity that we all know about. If anybody who's preached knows about the intensity of sunday morning animals has felt it, They recognized that. And then the interesting thing was that on monday their father would

00:12:15.990 - 00:12:39.690

come downstairs with the most God awful outfits on and completely. There's and so they look forward to uh monday a lot because it was a time when their father belonged to them. I think there are lots

00:12:39.690 - 00:12:58.910

of things like that in pastoral ministry that we can engage in or we can, he'll avoid engaging in . It can be a gift avoiding, it can be less than a gift. one of the things

00:12:58.910 - 00:13:22.160

that I felt very strongly as I've taught in seminary has been that one of those rhythms is the rhythm of pastoral care, that there is something about pastoral care that demands a rhythm that thrives on a rhythm

00:13:24.040 - 00:13:43.960

. And I remember recently talking to a young pastor and I said, you know, one of the things that I, yes, the most in pastoral ministry is pastoral care and this pastor said to me

00:13:45.860 - 00:14:03.100

in hospital halls, okay. And I said, no, I'm talking about the day to day rhythms of life where you come to know people in a way that is so deep and so significant. Bet

00:14:03.240 - 00:14:20.800

you'll never forget them and I can name those, I can close my eyes and see them. And that is probably not, probably has been the greatest gift of ministry. My uncle was a presbyterian presbyterian

00:14:20.800 - 00:14:39.390

minister in Maryland and the day I was ordained, he took me aside and gave me some advice and it wasn't plastics, but but he's moving the graduate for all year. But he took me aside and

00:14:39.390 - 00:15:01.160

he said, it's not always easy. I remember that line last time, but he said being a pastor, we'll give you the opportunity to get to know people in a way that is a great gift

00:15:01.740 - 00:15:18.960

to you. Don't miss it. Don't miss it because that is one of the things that, um , we'll go with you and bless you for the whole time. Your ministry, I've never forget forgotten

00:15:18.440 - 00:15:37.800

Russell's words. Um, I was just thinking as you were talking about something out, was taught in seminary about the ministry of presence. Um, um , you know, they, they at least the

00:15:37.800 - 00:15:56.460

way I heard this lecture in pastoral care, it was what I took away from it is that you don't necessarily have to say the amazing thing when you go into a difficult situation pastorally, maybe you're just

00:15:56.470 - 00:16:08.920

being there is all that really matters now. I think I kind of was to concrete about that piece of wisdom. And so I went into the first church I served and um, there was a lady

00:16:08.920 - 00:16:23.550

whose grandmother grandchild had been killed tragically in a car crash and I drew the, with a lot to go visit her and sit with her. And so I went to her house, the place was filled

00:16:23.550 - 00:16:34.460

with food and people in all the rooms and I'm thinking a ministry of presence. You don't have to say something, just be there. And so I sat down in the living room and she sat down

00:16:34.460 - 00:16:51.740

the living room and sort of looked at her, oh, I can't believe I'm telling you that. I didn't say the first word. And finally she said, well I've got guests and so she got

00:16:51.740 - 00:17:04.600

a wait a minute. What's wrong with that? So, I was a bit of a fundamentalist with respect to the Ministry of presence. You do have to say something like, like how are you doing

00:17:04.600 - 00:17:17.580

or whatever, but do you have any what you're describing in the best sense of the word with respect to these encounters, not just in the hospital, but otherwise you've had with your parishioners and the ways

00:17:17.580 - 00:17:32.540

in which those moments have been, um the seeming moments of a pastoral relationship. Um, yeah, that was really those were examples of the ministry of presence, right? It really were. And there

00:17:32.540 - 00:17:51.810

are some wonderful stories that I think of uh including the death of a friend of mine who was a major league umpire and the baseball empire and he was in the process of dying. Now, you have

00:17:51.810 - 00:18:04.380

to know that this guy had such a sense of humor that every now and then when I'd say on a rare occasion something funny in the pulpit. Mhm . I tried not to do that, of course

00:18:07.340 - 00:18:21.100

, that he would let loose with, Oh, that was his voice. He was your Ed McMahon . He was he was my Ed McMahon. I never thought about that. There's other cultural reference for

00:18:21.100 - 00:18:41.020

those, you know, who has been, but I was with him uh when he was dying and I said, I didn't one of those, the times when you don't know what to say and are

00:18:41.020 - 00:19:10.720

afraid, you'd say the wrong thing, but I said here out, oh yeah, and bless his heart, Glenn said oh no, I said to follow that, but you're safe, mhm And you

00:19:10.720 - 00:19:33.790

know what he said? Oh wow. But I think that the times, the times, the places mm our classic, they're instructive. Yeah, this is hard to ask for a person who has been

00:19:33.790 - 00:19:52.650

a a stalwart example of ministry and pastoral pastoral life , but I'm gonna ask you anyway, were there ever times when you didn't get it right? Oh Uh in your pastoral life, were there ever times

00:19:52.650 - 00:20:08.010

when you didn't get it right? And what did you learn from those times? There was 1984 now , what? I think that there are more of those times than not and remember that if you don't

00:20:08.010 - 00:20:22.200

remember anything else that I've said as a as a teacher and pastor, remember that you don't have to be perfect. In fact, if you're perfect, they won't love you. Mhm. You know,

00:20:22.320 - 00:20:42.320

they love us for our drawbacks and the things that we don't get right, and that's that's a great gift. So right, don't be perfect. Don't try to be perfect. They appreciate the humanity.

00:20:42.460 - 00:20:57.460

Yes. Um, what about pastoral care from the pulpit? Surely there are times when we need to be prophetic from the pulp, yep. Um, are there Times 2? We particularly need to be

00:20:57.480 - 00:21:26.020

asked hopefully. So there was almost, well 17 years ago. Yeah, with The need for to say something 9 11, that was a challenge. And the challenge was to say something, say something

00:21:26.020 - 00:21:41.760

meaningful because I think there were a lot of things that are said that are, were said from pulpits that were in name Don't be a name. So here are my two points Don't be a name.

00:21:41.330 - 00:22:00.070

Don't be perfect. Don't be perfect. But don't be a name. There's a spectrum was a spectrum there. Yeah. Uh, but I think that there is a place where to be human is the

00:22:00.070 - 00:22:30.160

greatest gift you can give your people of to be human is to, to be real. B um I'm going to stop there to be real, to be thoroughly genuine and that will be a gift to

00:22:30.160 - 00:22:45.430

your people. Mhm. Um, I'm gonna ask you one more question and then I'm gonna throw it out to people. Um would you talk about people in your life who have served as your pastor?

00:22:45.500 - 00:23:04.730

Yeah, as I said to somebody recently, I've been pastored by a lot of people, some of them have even been ordained and uh they are some of the most special people in my life. They

00:23:04.730 - 00:23:27.280

have been not all of them are still with us . I went through difficult divorce when I was the important pastor of Church of 2000 members and full myself . And it came apart during that time. A

00:23:27.280 - 00:23:44.020

friend of mine called who was not a member of the church, he was a methodist and charlie, charlie called me and he said, I understand you're going through a hard time. I said, he

00:23:44.020 - 00:24:00.730

said, our house is a big house and our kids are grown and I don't know what else to do to help you. So if you need a place to stay, place to call home for a

00:24:00.730 - 00:24:21.450

while, it's yours. And he said, he added that we have a well, he said, we have a big house, lots of room. When you need to be to be left alone,

00:24:21.450 - 00:24:41.520

we know how to do that and when you need to talk I make the best martini in your county . You know that was passed early that was deeply pastorally and I was so grateful to him for so

00:24:41.520 - 00:25:00.200

many years for caring for me. Yeah for to his wife who was just a deer who was able to be a mother to me in the full sense of that word and that included giving me heck once

00:25:00.200 - 00:25:21.200

in a while when she saw me going the wrong way. But those kind of that kind of person , those we're just gifts of God for me. Um there have been lots and lots of people like

00:25:21.200 - 00:25:37.680

that who walk to the the road with me uh huh found the way with me when I couldn't find it by the way Being the big time pastor of 2000 member churches. Not all it's cracked up to

00:25:37.680 - 00:25:56.790

be. Mhm. Sometimes you realize that what what it really is about is more work and or ego which is not particularly good for your soul by the way. So or their questions comments from this group

00:25:56.790 - 00:26:22.650

gathered. Yes. Yes. You have more of the gifts that you received from. Yeah. Yeah , gifts are a simplicity of life. I have really experienced that in spades. Uh huh. The

00:26:22.650 - 00:26:45.150

fact that my days are so simple compared to what they used to be and really frankly I spend my days uh receiving people. Yes. Mhm. Which is kind of fun you know and when I receive

00:26:45.160 - 00:27:06.170

people uh one of the things I found what that Cindy and I have found and you need to learn is there is a limit to a pastoral call. You know what I'm talking about? No one day

00:27:06.540 - 00:27:30.090

We had one person or one couple come and said we'd like to stop by and see you 10:30 for 10:30 and stayed until 10, 10 30. Right ? All right. 1, 1, yeah.

00:27:30.100 - 00:27:52.260

Okay. And 2.5 hours. 2.5 hours. Yeah . The next person who called was actually a church staff member who said I want to come and see you. Yeah. Four stayed until I by 15

00:27:53.040 - 00:28:04.890

. The other gift is that I have a wife who has a great sense of humor, a sense of uh keeping a good log. Keeping a good log. That's right. Then we had a call

00:28:06.940 - 00:28:21.160

from somebody who said we'd like to come and either take you to dinner by the way. Something about cancer is, you don't have the greatest of appetites gone through this or if you don't feel like that

00:28:21.540 - 00:28:44.020

, we can come and just for a brief visit , it came at eight o'clock Paid until 10:30 now . Did we have a good time? Absolutely. We love these people. Yeah. Ah was it

00:28:44.020 - 00:29:00.750

hard? Yes, I couldn't do it anymore. So one of the things I learned was, but what you think is a brief pastoral call. Think again. So, and really you are so helpful

00:29:02.240 - 00:29:21.960

when it really is brief. So uhh there are deeper things that I've learned. One is that I'm not afraid of death. That's a surprise. I think we think about death far more than we on

00:29:22.240 - 00:29:45.560

. No, I have think about what it will be like. But as it turns out, I don't think about that very much at all. It's a, it's a gift in many ways. Um

00:29:47.830 - 00:30:07.980

I think about it only in terms of two things 1 negative and one positive. The negative is saying goodbye to Cindy. That's a biggie. Okay. I don't want to do it. The positive is

00:30:08.340 - 00:30:30.770

, I am so curious. I don't know what's next And I think that that is a marvelous things to look forward to. Mm I don't know by the way. Another book since this is seminary.

00:30:30.770 - 00:30:44.120

I'm gonna give you a list of books. Uh huh. Another book is kate bowler. Yeah, kate bowlers wonderful. She's going to be oppressed and all my old church in Dallas. Uh, I

00:30:44.120 - 00:30:57.860

think next month or the month after. But she wrote a book with a great title. I love her title. Okay. It's called Everything Happens For a Reason and Ever and other Lies. I've loved

00:30:59.640 - 00:31:19.670

, I don't know. And that speaks to me . Ah but anyway, I, there are deep moments along the way that are, are really special gifts of God and I am grateful for that.

00:31:21.440 - 00:31:38.120

Uh I'm curious about that. Have look forward to finding out a conversation about this. Maybe think of I need somebody to help me with this because I don't think I can pull it all up. But

00:31:38.120 - 00:31:52.250

the john done him is a john done all praise to thee. My brother and king. Yes. And then one verses something to the effect of all praise to thee. My brother death. Yes.

00:31:52.320 - 00:32:12.670

I'm looking at tom curry because I don't know. Mr. District, thank you. Something something right right. Um to think of death as a sibling as opposed to uh error. A wonderful, what

00:32:12.670 - 00:32:31.210

a wonderful gift. The gift you're asking for. Does that respond to your question? I is that no perfect way they will bless you? In fact , in fact, one of the things that I

00:32:31.210 - 00:32:47.170

think about a lot is ever since I learned that I have this, I've thought about all the people that I have walked this road with and half the time not knowing what to do next or what to

00:32:47.170 - 00:33:07.350

say next. But the huge blessings. But I remember 23 year old guy in uh church in york pennsylvania that I've heard who was brought home from California , where he had just been diagnosed with a rare

00:33:07.350 - 00:33:27.660

form of testicular cancer. It was a very creative uh huh composer of rock music. And he said at one point, he said, you know, blair if I had a chance to push a button

00:33:29.240 - 00:33:44.990

and make it as if this never happened, I don't think I push it now, to be honest , a little later, close to the time when he died, john said, you know what that

00:33:44.990 - 00:34:06.190

thing about the button? I think I'm going to think about that a while. Great question. Thank you. Andrew right. Hey, how are you ? All right? I Uh huh. Very grateful

00:34:06.190 - 00:34:24.600

for the opportunity of the semester directed study. All right. Yeah. You are hopeless. It's something that really entered my life last semester and for the first time I didn't That's true. But I didn't

00:34:24.600 - 00:34:46.850

know how has built up and I don't know if you expect try to keep us together. You don't have to in your life. Recent leader. I'm sure it's called in the ministries. Right? How

00:34:46.850 - 00:35:02.670

did, Yeah. We want to say that we can have Just this one shape. Yeah. Yes . And just Yeah. Great. Well, put , that's a brave question. Thank you. And

00:35:02.680 - 00:35:20.350

we'll put and from what I hear you're doing some wonderful things about that. That's a good question. And you know, I have a carrying bridge page , but I don't know gone on that. But

00:35:20.740 - 00:35:39.610

one of the things I struggle with is I want to be positive and I want to express the faith a way that gives hope. But I want to be honest, I'm afraid sometimes that instead of being

00:35:39.660 - 00:36:04.160

honest, oh yannas. Mm Now sometimes it might be my way of dealing with it. I do and need positive vibes through this time. But on the other hand, there is, there is something

00:36:06.130 - 00:36:24.800

about living this faith, the way I, I put it in to a, a friend of mine recently, it was as if I just learned something new, this gospel we preach is true. My

00:36:24.810 - 00:36:43.040

goodness. Yeah. I have to go back and read some old sermons. What did I say? Um, I think that's a very deep, very important question and it's not an easy question. Um

00:36:45.530 - 00:37:02.810

, but I, I pray and I will pray for you daily. The answer will come my little , that's the way the answer comes. Make my experience. It doesn't come in a whirlwind. Oh

00:37:02.810 - 00:37:35.660

, there's a book about that in the bible somewhere . Okay. But but it does come. Yeah . And I think that when it comes it comes as surprising gift that is unexpected by far. So

00:37:37.830 - 00:38:00.450

I wish I had the answer. Mhm. But time I think you're asking the right question. I want to say with kate bowler you have I wasn't title. Yeah. Everything happens for a reason,

00:38:01.220 - 00:38:23.840

bullshit. I didn't quote me on that. Okay . It doesn't happen for a reason. Not everything . Some things do. You're amazing, but not always. That doesn't mean that life is meaningless.

00:38:28.120 - 00:38:50.990

Thank you. Okay. Your your name Giant. He's being funny because she used to be his secretary , dedicated system. Mhm. And I've got to see you. Yeah. And and I said one

00:38:50.990 - 00:39:07.720

of the greatest gifts you're you are were the fact that you didn't say there were many things that criticized . Yeah. Let it go by or arguments that you didn't broke, which was a lesson in itself

00:39:07.730 - 00:39:24.990

to watch. Um And the other thing about being checked. Yes. Gave everybody around you permission to just be who we were. Yeah. Being pastoral , how you pass for me tough times in my

00:39:24.990 - 00:39:37.590

life. All right. You say you love me to be a complete man Less than S. seven War. And that is a huge huge gift to give location. This guy. I wanted to ask

00:39:37.600 - 00:39:59.190

you What is one thing you could share with these about how to deal with staff. Nothing. Hello . And then it's helpful to run screaming out the room. Uh love them. I've got I've got

00:39:59.200 - 00:40:15.740

that standard answer for a lot of things and and I think because it's true that if you love people , that's my first first rule of pastoral ministry. Even the difficult ones. Maybe especially the difficult ones

00:40:17.110 - 00:40:43.750

. If you can find it within you to love them. Anyway, recognizing that often I'm pretty much as hard to love as they were. Mhm. That's I think one secret Caroline players. So good

00:40:43.750 - 00:40:59.250

to see you. You do. You were too look back on your sermons and you're preaching ministry over the years and say, this is the service. I want to do my legacy. This is the

00:40:59.250 - 00:41:25.140

message. I want to make sure what a wonderful , difficult question. You know, I think person I want to ask that is Cindy name because Number one should be honest. And number two, she

00:41:25.150 - 00:41:43.940

she was very always very that's in terms of knowing what was helpful and what wasn't by the way before I do that I'll give her a chance to think uh mm. one of the things that think about

00:41:46.510 - 00:42:05.800

, that's what God favorite sermon. No, no , I was was the time when I would come home and first of all her opinion of a sermon was more important than anybody else. Yeah, I

00:42:05.810 - 00:42:28.920

just wanted to know that community for her. Uh if she didn't like it, she would say something like um but no, if she, if she did like it, let me back up. If

00:42:28.920 - 00:42:43.580

she did like it, she'd say something like um that was really wonderful. That was really wonderful. And it touched me and she'd always say before I preached, touched my heart, yeah. What's my

00:42:43.580 - 00:43:00.560

heart? Ben? If she didn't like it and she knew that she was on tender territory what preacher wants to be told that ousting Lakers Herman. She would say that was really good. There was something

00:43:00.560 - 00:43:22.420

that I like better. So what one? What would you pick here? It really is just 10.1 . Uh huh. I believe you're first. Uh huh. Yes. Angel a church tell them why

00:43:22.800 - 00:43:52.230

um I preached a sermon called the Angel of the Church which is based on was based on oh Biblical scholar wrote the commentary on revelation. All right, jeanne, boring um mm probably going back further anyway

00:43:52.100 - 00:44:22.630

. Excellent little discolored. Oh uh huh was writing about this Angel of the church and he said what's this Angel of the church business? And I said maybe it's b well as the Guardian angel sure doesn't

00:44:22.630 - 00:44:50.330

fit the cosmology at the time. Maybe it's the Yeah. Uh mhm. Not the Angel of the church but ah the bishop. No, I've known too many bishops and so finally he comes up with

00:44:50.330 - 00:45:07.130

this idea that maybe the Angel of the church is the soul of the church. And that was that was brilliant in my mind. But what came next was even more brilliant, brilliant, brilliant or Yeah

00:45:07.790 - 00:45:24.270

, and that was that he said among all the things that a new pastor has to do early without fail is get to know the Angel, because if you don't get to know the angel, you can

00:45:24.270 - 00:45:43.300

be in deep duty. And so I preached a sermon on that and I priest on the Angel and how we identify the angel and that one I guess is you want to touch to you, I like

00:45:43.300 - 00:46:02.090

that. That's only important when you first came to press our, that is your first sir, I think, great starting point to get to understand the church um returns from what I've been told March is

00:46:02.090 - 00:46:30.750

to be going through and until you understand that I'm Yeah right. The most Yes. You have to understand man two life into the there's all that really I like that and then I She thought of two

00:46:30.760 - 00:46:57.020

. Oh gosh, yes. Mr Dreyfus and holly Hunter. Um but we saw I guess it was like 89, right? And it was movie about saying it now, wait for moment or don't lose

00:46:57.030 - 00:47:16.040

the chance to say to someone what you're truly feel with that person truly means to I can remember from another. You need to preach sermon on private what you did. I think if you will listing for

00:47:16.040 - 00:47:37.850

you too. The story. Yeah. But mhm . The whole congregation because were standing. I'm talking to you. Yeah. And really express which I thought was interesting. I I have remembered and you've

00:47:37.850 - 00:47:57.380

probably been here those of you preacher. I remember seeing something of a poem. I'll say it now . And I could not find that. I looked all through my library, went to the church librarian

00:47:57.390 - 00:48:15.000

, she couldn't find it went to the church or the public library, the circulation desk and they couldn't find it. And so obviously I wasn't gonna find that what? And that morning I got up,

00:48:15.470 - 00:48:39.450

I went to my study is worth my habit. and five minutes before the service I walked I walked from my desk and back to a shelf my library and hold this book off the shelf by a it

00:48:39.450 - 00:48:58.540

was a book of poetry by a rabbi and open it up members. You know, I don't know how to explain things like that. But I remember calling Cindy and saying, I don't know if I

00:48:58.540 - 00:49:20.550

can go into worship today because this is so but and so that was the back story. Mhm There are certain ones that I think Caroline the live with you as you know very well better than I do

00:49:22.170 - 00:49:42.720

. Yeah are treasures and, and most of them I didn't have anything to do about. Mhm. That's the funny thing. I think we have time for two more questions. Someone I've seen, I've

00:49:42.720 - 00:50:07.040

seen hands rise and so I'm calling you next and I'm going to call on you first nancy. What do you consider to have been a wasted words and what matters to you? Who what a great question

00:50:07.760 - 00:50:27.040

, wasted worry. Remember somewhere I don't know who said it, but worry is a misuse of the imagination that speaks to me because so often that's true . You know, waste worry on things that are

00:50:27.040 - 00:51:00.780

not worthy of worried. Um, yeah. The other part of your question, what matters to you know, matters mm people mattered to me in a big way. Um those times my thoughts together for

00:51:00.780 - 00:51:30.580

that one, what matters to me and continues to matter to me is people and the presence along the way of people no matter to go out and for whom for a lot of the world doesn't matter.

00:51:34.060 - 00:51:58.310

And I think that's what churches for is to pick up those souls two and to somehow communicate the idea us you matter The 3rd part. That was it . Okay knock us home wow. In your beginning

00:51:58.320 - 00:52:24.600

years. The ministry of preaching and you're certain preparation . Is there anything here? Yeah. Marriage sermon preparation in messages and how do you get? Yeah , but I teach this class for your wonderful uh

00:52:24.600 - 00:52:49.210

huh. Yeah. There have been changes. One thing I'm not preaching as much these days. one thing I want to say is that absolute importance of thorough preparation and by that I mean Pearl being you

00:52:49.220 - 00:53:12.080

go places where don't normally think of Bill and you explore and Mhm takes you places where as I say Mhm places that surprise you. one of the things I used to do and I recommend highly used to

00:53:12.080 - 00:53:44.480

go someplace away from home and holed up somewhere and take a a box of books. Uh huh. Hopefully a place with a fireplace back when I was in the northeast it was Lake Winnipesaukee and mm sake

00:53:45.880 - 00:54:08.280

. And then later on it became. Yeah. Yeah windows into Mexico. Yeah. I always made it a habit of finding somebody who had a nice place. Mhm And people were very very helpful to

00:54:08.280 - 00:54:24.410

me that way and they be very happy and flattered and honored that I wanted to use their place and hold up and use that. That practice was worth its weight in gold. So did you did you

00:54:24.410 - 00:54:45.780

use Yeah. Oh uh What I did for many years is planned my preaching for the year. And I mean it sounds dot to daunting but in many ways it was a wonderful practice because it got my

00:54:45.780 - 00:55:02.820

pump going. Yeah. Just give us a time to get my thoughts together. And one of the things that that would do is that I would come back and give a copy of that document, everybody

00:55:02.820 - 00:55:22.500

on the staff including the musicians. So the there where I was going was not going to be a surprise to them for that reason. Nobody loved me the way the musicians did. And so that was

00:55:22.510 - 00:55:38.450

that was a very important please. And read. Read read. Don't let that go by the boards . Yes. Wonderful blair. Thank you for this gift of this hour. This has been amazing,

00:55:38.620 - 00:55:49.570

more amazing than I thought it might be. This has just been, I think on behalf of all of us here, I'm very grateful to you for you and Cindy for coming down and making this moment

00:55:49.580 - 00:56:04.070

possible. Thank you for, for doing this. And thank you for putting up with my uh, no occasional glitches. So I've known people for years who had minor strokes and that kind of thing.

00:56:04.080 - 00:56:22.410

By the way, you don't have something like cancer or any serious illness without thinking about all those people now. They're teaching me people like to land well friends. We are at the end of the hour

00:56:22.930 - 00:56:37.700

. Uh, let me just wish you well as you go to the rest of your day, your classes and whatnot. And before we leave I'd like to have us pause and have a prayer today please

00:56:37.710 - 00:56:57.530

. Could I interrupt your career? Sure, please please. I want to say that one of the greatest blessings of my life has been teaching here, which gives such meaning to retirement of it coming into

00:56:57.530 - 00:57:15.960

the class into the classroom and seeing the likes of you. But sometimes daunting you've got worried yet and often and usually great great gift and a great place . And along with that, I want to say

00:57:16.530 - 00:57:45.480

I have never had a friend mr death. I found intent of not long ago ted drove 2.5 hours , two Dallas where I live Dallas um And spent 2.5 hours with us. Then afterward went back 2.5

00:57:45.480 - 00:58:04.210

hours or 3.5 hours uh two Austin. And you know, I told him a story about a somebody who gave a gift one time of travel. like he went a long way and he said when somebody

00:58:04.210 - 00:58:28.180

said something about that, he said long walk part of gift. And I think that time and time again, thank you for the long walks paying attention . Somebody else is gonna need to read, Let

00:58:28.180 - 00:58:40.090

us pray the Lord be with you and also with you. Well Lord we give you thanks for Blair and for Cindy and for their ministry, especially their ministry here, I humbly ask you to continue to

00:58:40.090 - 00:58:55.040

sustain them both in these days ahead. Thank you for how Blair has taught us, not just from the pulpit and not just from the classroom, also through a life of faithfulness and courage. Well lived

00:58:57.320 - 00:59:13.590

right that we might all follow in that example, that each of us might live with courage in the midst of adversity, might celebrate faith even amidst tears , might labor with good hope, knowing that neither

00:59:13.600 - 00:59:29.530

that labour nor that hope is in vain, guard our steps as we each follow our journeys. Grant that those steps might yet bring us together before the doorway of your kingdom, jesus christ our Lord.

00:59:30.120 - 00:59:34.730

Okay, thank you. Thank you, baby.