00:00:11.420 - 00:00:31.320

the title of these two lectures as uh, our President almost sung last night. I'm not going to sing either. two. Changes from 50,000 ft. The currents and futures of theological education note that those

00:00:31.320 - 00:00:51.400

are both plural. The first lecture carries on that stutter changes from 5 50,000 ft. The currents of theological education, I think in your programs, it may just say currents. Lecture two Will be the

00:00:51.400 - 00:01:03.360

view from 50,000 ft, the futures of theological education and again in your program. It may just say futures, but it really my intent and my goal here is to expound on what we see going on

00:01:03.360 - 00:01:18.560

in theological education. From this viewpoint at A T . S. I'll explain 50,000 ft in a later portion of the next lecture, but also to examine what are the future prospects and what do those look

00:01:18.560 - 00:01:41.560

like. So let me begin with Changes from 50,000 ft. The currents of theological education, it's almost hard not to sing that, I must admit. It's such a pleasure to be in Austin this january

00:01:41.670 - 00:02:06.820

, this january morning When the forecast calls for sunny to partly cloudy skies and a high of 66°.. I'm not bitter. I'm just from Pittsburgh, but it was two years ago in january Of 2016 that

00:02:06.820 - 00:02:19.660

we lost one of the great pop icons from the 70s and 80s David Bowie, a song that shaped his career and was the rallying cry of a generation was captured in his iconic hit changes. A song

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that was released in Wait for it, January of 1972. You know the song of which I speak or maybe not, since some of you may have been too young if you were too young, your

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parents may have remembered this song. As I said again, Our beloved president almost mustered the courage to sing it out last night, but it had this catchy refrain, two changes. Right. I did

00:02:52.040 - 00:03:05.800

sing it. I couldn't help it. Sorry. And overlapping. What changes was a phrase, turn and face the strange. It is one of the greatest stuttering lyrics of all time. Right up there

00:03:05.800 - 00:03:23.340

with the who's talking about my generation or Elton, john's Bennie and the Jets Now, all stuttering in humorous side. The song was a reflection of the times. Things were changing in the 60s, 70s

00:03:23.340 - 00:03:39.330

and 80s. And there was hope in that change , in spite of the threat of the diminishing influence of religious, social and political institutions that made up late 20th century. England wait, diminishing influence of

00:03:39.330 - 00:04:00.330

religious, social and political institutions about what century am I talking as Co hell at the Sage of Ecclesiastes reminds us there is nothing new under the sun. The line that overlaps with changes is Turn and face

00:04:00.330 - 00:04:14.650

. The strange Bowie, like many in that generation of pop music embraced the unrecognizable face of changes that confronted the society in which he lived in the U . S. Youth. Now the aging baby boomer

00:04:14.650 - 00:04:28.460

generation were engaged in social revolution. The government could not be trusted in the same way one will remember the Vietnam War and Water Gates make love not War was the slogan of the day. In a time

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when we were always at war, it was an age of hippies who later became the entrepreneurial yuppies. Hope was mixed with the uncertainty of change. New ideals of community were forming and reforming as young people

00:04:46.290 - 00:05:05.700

decried institutions and systems even as they craved community. Civil rights began at the grassroots and in black churches and achieved momentum as a movement and eventual legislation even as racism and cultural culture resisted these movements. It

00:05:05.700 - 00:05:25.410

was a time of hope and change and resistance to that change, a time of renewal and chaos. It was an age in which some systems died, even as others were being birthed. I'm a pause

00:05:25.410 - 00:05:33.950

here just a minute and you can hear the echoes of what I'm trying to get at, both in terms of theological education, but also in the church . You know, in this day and age,

00:05:33.950 - 00:05:46.460

I know we are really trying to avoid these decline narratives that we hear about the church every day. The church is not dying. It's changing. And yet it's odd to me that we coming from a

00:05:46.460 - 00:06:05.820

christian tradition, find it hard to echo the word death because isn't it what we believe that death from death emerges life and in fact nothing new can be born until something has died. And yet, for

00:06:05.820 - 00:06:21.910

whatever reason, we still have a struggle with that term death and dying. But this age of which I was speaking, it's an age in which some systems died even as others were being birthed. A

00:06:21.910 - 00:06:36.700

lot has changed since those decades, almost 50 years ago. It's hard for me to say that and so much has remained the same distrust of government and the system of government, suspicion of the institutions that

00:06:36.700 - 00:06:50.680

in previous generation held a position of trust in the public, the generation that sees the world differently than their elders. A generation more hopeful and passionate as a movement as it is uncertain still, given the

00:06:50.680 - 00:07:06.450

realities they face. Civil rights, it's safe to say have gone backward. We are returning to an age of suspicion of the other of the gair, the immigrant in our midst, in an age of

00:07:06.450 - 00:07:21.320

mass incarceration and the killing of black and brown bodies , justice seems not like a distant dream, but a discarded memory. So today to turn and face the strange is to look into the face of a

00:07:21.320 - 00:07:39.570

future that seems uncertain and unrecognizable where the rules that once ordered the world seem no longer apply. It's no wonder that our current popular culture is obsessed with dystopian visions of the future, where the metaphorical world

00:07:39.570 - 00:07:53.490

of zombie apocalypse is beginning to see them all too literal. So we certainly can see the parallels between our present time in that distant land of a half century ago. Or should I say, we can

00:07:53.490 - 00:08:09.860

identify the crisis of both of these moments in time . But the pregnant question is, where is the hope in this current age? Where is our hope ? Where can the Gospel be found in this narrative

00:08:11.820 - 00:08:26.670

? The parallel is harder to find. One won't find it along a latitude where there is a wall of indifference and exclusion. To find the hope we must seek a greater parallel, a deeper congruence because

00:08:26.670 - 00:08:43.860

God is no stranger to change. And the people of God have journeyed this wilderness before. But now I'm beginning to preach, and only a fool would choose to preach after following lilly Jennings and Jonathan Walton

00:08:45.440 - 00:09:00.140

. So let me get back to the task at hand to identify the currents or the present tense of what is happening in theological education. See I'm usually and in a former life, it almost seems like

00:09:00.140 - 00:09:18.240

now a hebrew bible scholars. So I'm used to reading texts and listening to text as second readers dr Jennings and I'm also listening. I'm also used to listening to communities of readers and hearing from them today

00:09:18.240 - 00:09:31.020

though. Friends, my text is theological education itself . So let us listen together what the signs of the times are saying to us, the journey on which I'm inviting you requires us to use a wide

00:09:31.020 - 00:09:48.660

angled ends to pull back from selfie mode to landscape view from our current setting in this beautifully quaint seminary chapel to see the broader horizon of theological education in North America Because things look very different from 50,000 ft

00:09:52.240 - 00:10:03.450

. Let me talk a little bit and now I'm going to sound a little bit more like an executive director, but I couldn't waste the moment a little bit about cats. The World of ATS Association of

00:10:03.450 - 00:10:18.730

Theological Schools, which will celebrate its 100th year at this 2018 biennial. The world of ATS offers us and by us. I do not simply mean we the staff, but the us of Matt's all the

00:10:18.740 - 00:10:33.620

over 264 member schools. This world offers us a much broader glimpse of what is going on in theological schools and seminaries in Canada and the United States. One of the most consistent pieces of feedback that we

00:10:33.620 - 00:10:48.400

received from individuals, administrators and faculty. You attend at initiatives workshops or leadership education is how much more of an expansive view of theological education they receive when attending at events. Something happens when we listen to

00:10:48.400 - 00:11:05.100

each other, We are changed by each other. Yes, we are in a credit agency and that doesn't make for good continuing educational lectures. And I know by the way that Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary is

00:11:05.100 - 00:11:22.020

also undergoing its current self study. I heard about that. Um, and my visit has nothing to do with that in particular, right? But even though we're in accrediting Agency Acts offers so much more

00:11:22.020 - 00:11:37.750

than a compliance checklist to its schools to research data analysis, leadership development. Other services at schools participate in peer learning. A collective wisdom in which the whole is greater than its constituent parts. An amazing

00:11:37.750 - 00:11:48.930

thing happens when schools learn from each other. They share best practices about is what is working and what is not working. They talk about the issues they are facing and how they are seeking to address them

00:11:48.930 - 00:12:05.490

. And in the process they realize that they are not unknown. They assess what innovations are sticking and how these changes are helping schools to better advance their mission in these times of change. At ATS.

00:12:05.490 - 00:12:24.370

We believe in this collective wisdom because wisdom multiplies when it is shared, the legacy of ATS is just this and it's captured very well in its mission statement to to promote the improvement and enhancement of theological schools

00:12:24.370 - 00:12:37.500

to the benefit of communities of faith and the broader public. This mission is carried out both in the U. S. And in Canada. Within this broad ecclesial diversity of the school's roman, catholic,

00:12:37.510 - 00:12:56.390

evangelical protestant and mainline protestant. The diversities within our faith traditions all serve the common goal of improving and enhancing theological education in the member schools. If I'm a pause on that in the day and age where

00:12:56.390 - 00:13:11.790

religion and politics seem to divide us and that is the primary narrative that is in the public sphere, is an incredible witness to the church and to society , to see the different ecclesial families working together all

00:13:11.790 - 00:13:24.730

toward the common goal of improvements in theological education, to the benefit of communities of faith in the broader public another way and brief the way to say this is we can accomplish amazing things when we work together

00:13:24.760 - 00:13:41.840

, when we share a common goal to embrace and continue this cross ecclesia legacy is the first part of the vision that has emerged AT ATS. The second part of this vision is to foster innovation in the

00:13:41.840 - 00:13:56.940

schools. One thing that we hear from our schools consistently is that the pace and nature of change is rapid and profound. Our society, the Church and higher education are all changing. Theological education resides at

00:13:56.940 - 00:14:09.140

the meeting place of these three larger forces and schools are seeking to adapt to these changes so that they can continue to carry out their historical missions in new ways. So in this time of declining enrollments,

00:14:09.150 - 00:14:22.540

financially stressed schools and changing student demographics. Our schools need resources, best practices to support each other as they lean into these changes and innovate what they do , how they do it, and for whom they

00:14:22.540 - 00:14:41.350

do it. Legacy and innovation. Legacy and innovation is what acts will be about Now we return to the scene about the dynamic between legacy and innovation because I think it has some deep theological content within it

00:14:41.440 - 00:14:56.860

. But now let me turn to the currents that we hear in theological education. What I would like to do is actually walk you through an exercise. I mean, invite you to close your eyes and

00:14:56.860 - 00:15:16.260

I'm literally ask you to close your eyes and I want to see your eyes literally close, that goes for all of you to in the in the overflow room. I want you to close your eyes and

00:15:16.260 - 00:15:58.440

as your slate is currently blank. I want you to see an image of a typical seminary and as you see this image of your typical seminary, I now want you to imagine your typical seminarian. You

00:15:58.440 - 00:16:11.380

may open your eyes literally. Okay, that wasn't , that wasn't a figurative speech there. What did you see? And uh, for those of you in the, in the other room, I'll repeat

00:16:11.380 - 00:16:26.910

some of the answers. What did you see? Okay, so seminary, you saw buildings? Right , This is certainly something that is made up seminaries , correct. What else did you say? Green

00:16:26.910 - 00:16:41.240

spaces for walking? Sounds like the seminary that I went to. Certainly green spaces for walking. Yes . Okay, so that would be probably the seminarian . Right, So I heard a white male,

00:16:41.240 - 00:17:10.670

a white man as a seminarian. Okay, yes , in the back green. Okay, this person saw a black man who who may have been a saute todd and carrying books. Okay. Um yeah

00:17:10.680 - 00:17:34.630

, a couple more Yes, young hair with casual clothing. Okay. And long hair. Young young people with long hair and casual clothing, sorry. Yeah. Mhm Flip flops, yep. Okay,

00:17:34.640 - 00:17:47.830

I think maybe I was the one who evoked the 60s. Sorry about that. Yeah. What? two More? Two more here. Is your hand up there? Okay, in the back, a

00:17:47.830 - 00:18:04.550

middle aged white woman. Okay, good technology. Okay. Yeah. I walk us through this exercise because we all have in our image, usually an image of a seminary that probably the seminary that we

00:18:04.550 - 00:18:23.150

attended. What the classmates then the classmates with whom we attended. We don't have uh we uh it doesn't, it doesn't take long to know that our images are very culturally contextually based based on where we

00:18:23.150 - 00:18:41.370

went to school the traditions from which we came, the schools that formed and shaped us. But If you were to ask someone the same question in the 20th century, you would have likely received similar,

00:18:41.370 - 00:19:00.810

predictable responses. The seminary would have had been some image of a lovely residential campus with hollowed halls for learning. I remember I was, I believe the first asian american to serve at Seabury Western, which

00:19:00.810 - 00:19:11.750

was the first school which I taught. And I was in all the publicity literature because I was the first asian american to teach bible at Seabury Western. And um that what one of the images that made

00:19:11.750 - 00:19:25.250

the publicity and the handouts and the things that we gave to recruit to recruiting students or two students who were recruiting was an image of me standing by this big stone pillar with a bible or it could have

00:19:25.250 - 00:19:40.870

been the Book of Common Prayer and um, at least an Episcopalian that they might have seen that. And then the two students who are standing in front of me with very inquisitive looks, something like this

00:19:40.960 - 00:19:55.920

would resonate with the term seminary for all of us , the seminarian would have been relatively homogeneous, probably in terms of race, although it seems from our gathering. But if we were asking someone in the

00:19:55.930 - 00:20:10.920

20th century for most of the 20th century, relatively homogeneous in terms of race, gender and age. Now, if you were to identify and break down all the elements within these two images, You would

00:20:10.920 - 00:20:33.560

find that for the seminary and seminarian of the 21st century, almost all of these categories have shifted. So let me paint in broad strokes what these changes look like as we turn and face the strange as

00:20:33.560 - 00:20:48.930

we seek to look what into the mirror and see something that would have been unfamiliar To those who would imagine what the 20th century seminary and seminarian would look like. So we are seeing changes in at least

00:20:48.930 - 00:21:04.160

three different ways in the school structure or the model of the institution. For those of you trustees, you can even insert the word business model of the school in the programs and delivery of those programs.

00:21:04.940 - 00:21:22.170

And third, and the students that these schools serve , So one, the schools model structure, second programs and delivery third students. So with regard to the school structure or model, we are seeing a

00:21:22.170 - 00:21:37.660

significant increase in the number of schools that are emerging or embedding within larger context, for example, within a college or university context. So since 2010, There had been 26 schools that have engaged in merging

00:21:37.670 - 00:22:00.340

or embedding. This number is about 10% of the member schools within a seven year period. Now, embedded schools currently represent about 45% of the membership, and we expect that by the time that the standards

00:22:00.340 - 00:22:11.120

are redeveloped, something that the board of commissioners will be voting on later this week and if the process is approved, a vote will go to the membership at the june biennial. We expect that by this

00:22:11.120 - 00:22:26.870

time, that a majority or actually by the time the standards are redeveloped, probably a two or three year process that a majority of 80 s schools will be embedded schools. The current standards were written with

00:22:26.870 - 00:22:47.460

an independent freestanding school in mind. And for those of us who have worked in embedded schools. Dr Jennings at Yale divinity, Dr Walton, Harvard Divinity School. These are much different realities than freestanding schools

00:22:52.740 - 00:23:03.110

. However, the image that one has in one's mind when one closes one's eyes, isn't it? At school is It tends to not be a school that is embedded in a college or university, but

00:23:03.110 - 00:23:14.820

tended to be a freestanding school. So, I want to make something really clear here and I know I'm just kind of shouting out some data, that's what we do at 80 s. So I'm getting

00:23:14.820 - 00:23:27.300

used to this gig. This gig, it's a new gig for me. This is not a prescription for the future of theological schools. Let me be really clear. Merging is not the answer for all

00:23:27.300 - 00:23:41.990

schools. Embedding is not the answer for all schools merging. And embedding, however, is more likely the byproduct of an increasing number of schools serving a flat or decreasing number of students. It is an

00:23:42.000 - 00:24:04.080

effect not a cure. Schools are also changing in terms of their programs and delivery. So this is my second um note and general observation about how schools are changing, how many of you received or were

00:24:04.080 - 00:24:15.390

connected to a person who received a Master of divinity degree, raise your hand. Now, I can't see all of you in the, in the other room, but I would say that that was pretty

00:24:15.390 - 00:24:30.910

close to about 95% of all of you. The masters of divinity degree was also often called the gold standard of theological education. Of course it is a professional degree that is required coordination in some of our

00:24:30.910 - 00:24:48.950

ecclesial traditions, though not all the degree is relatively flat and has been declining over time. While there has been growth in the number of students who are taking professional and academic degrees. So examples of that

00:24:48.950 - 00:25:03.140

might be an academic, a two year academic, Emma and Theology for example, or professional degree would be an M. A. In counseling Over 20 years ago. So that's one way that things are

00:25:03.140 - 00:25:17.860

changing. We're migrating in some way slowly but surely away from the empty of as being the predominant degree . Now, we're not going to replace the end of any time soon. But you can see that

00:25:17.860 - 00:25:34.060

there has been a shift. Second observation about schools that are changing in terms of their programs, delivery delivery. Over 20 years ago, there were no schools offering online courses or degree programs. Today,

00:25:34.540 - 00:25:53.530

Almost 2/3 of at schools have online courses and over a quarter have completely online degree programs. That is a dramatic shift in a very relatively short amount of time. However, distance learning only tells part of

00:25:53.530 - 00:26:10.930

the story, degrees and programs are increasingly moving to deeper engagement of a student's context. They are becoming high context programs. Think about this for a second For most of us, and this was the case

00:26:10.930 - 00:26:26.090

for me for most of us who received our emptive sometime in the 20th century or the early 21st, it was almost like a. D contextual ization. I remember I came, I came to faith when

00:26:26.090 - 00:26:41.710

I was 19 and I joined a 20,000 person megachurch in orange county California. It was one of the original Jesus people movement churches. Pentecostal or charismatic church non denominational started in a tent and it's where the

00:26:41.710 - 00:26:56.170

hippies and surfers would go because they weren't always accepted in our standard churches. And so they started this tent ministry that was predominantly among these hippies and surfers . And this was the church that I eventually attended

00:26:56.540 - 00:27:15.680

. After long they had built a campus and become this 20,000 person megachurch. But my experience of theological education, after working with youth in that program, and then eventually working in a church plant about maybe

00:27:15.680 - 00:27:26.950

a two mile and a half, two miles up the road, which was actually not the best planning To plant a church just down the street from a 20 person megachurch. We did not do our demographic

00:27:26.950 - 00:27:45.710

studies, but I later caught the bug of theological education and eventually came to to Princeton Seminary. But my experience of seminary was you were uprooted from your context of call, where you had exercised your gifts

00:27:45.710 - 00:27:59.550

and leadership, where people had affirmed those gifts, where you were demonstrating those gifts. And then I was kind of plucked up and then taught how not necessarily to be a pastor, though that was certainly

00:27:59.550 - 00:28:14.770

the subject material, but really learned how to be a graduate student. Of course, we were formed by worship by good preaching, bye good preaching professors , by good theology professors. It was all the

00:28:14.770 - 00:28:27.670

best of education that I could have got, that I could have asked for. And it was a d contextualizing moment to be placed in this place in Princeton, New Jersey, from southern California. And

00:28:27.870 - 00:28:41.750

when I graduated well, most of my, most of my colleagues and student colleagues who ended up serving in congregations and parishes then go into a context that is very different than the academic context from which they

00:28:41.750 - 00:28:55.770

came. And then that process begins of learning begins all over again. So it's both a, it's a, a deep context realization and a D context realization all at the same time. Well, schools

00:28:55.770 - 00:29:10.030

have begun to engage in taking seriously the context in which students currently reside. There are certain schools who are not plucking their students out of these context of call but are indeed using these contexts as not just

00:29:10.030 - 00:29:27.810

sites for learning, but indeed the congregation or the organization or the community becomes the text itself in which one learns biblical theology and theology and ministry and the arts of ministry. So there's been this tension in

00:29:27.810 - 00:29:44.970

this movement towards increased engagement of a student's current context . Some examples of the schools have been engaged in what is known as competency based education, where programs are developed after extensive surveys from churches and denominational leaders

00:29:44.970 - 00:30:00.430

about what their leaders need from the education, the skills and competencies that they feel would be beneficial to the congregation's. And then the seminary develops a curriculum in a program around these competencies and they're taught and

00:30:00.430 - 00:30:14.860

tested out often in the context where the students currently serve. Now, often a student is using his or her current ministry context, not just the sight of learning, but the context itself becomes a content

00:30:17.040 - 00:30:30.630

. This is indeed, a reversal of the traditional model of theological education and while not a dominant form of theological education, is instructive for the current realities that are facing students who are seeking service in church

00:30:30.630 - 00:30:42.790

and society. So this is not to say that the residential model is going away any time soon. It's not. Schools, however, are paying much more attention to the costs and benefits of residential theological

00:30:42.790 - 00:30:59.410

education. What is the cost and the benefit to move to a place like Austin? I see a lot of benefits by the way. So, for example, schools have committed themselves to this model are

00:30:59.410 - 00:31:15.400

now asking the question of how the best leverage their campuses and in person engagement to see what students can learn best in such environments. So, for example , what difference does it make to do theological education

00:31:15.570 - 00:31:34.030

in AustIN or decatur or Cambridge? So I've talked a little about schools, models, I've talked a little bit about delivery and methods and programs. Schools are also changing in terms of their student bodies and

00:31:34.030 - 00:31:52.790

the students whom they serve. So for the majority of the 20th century, the typical seminary student was white male, younger, full time residential and attending a school, the same denomination in which the student

00:31:52.790 - 00:32:12.260

was raised and the denomination or this person's local church supported that seminarian. The graduate would then go on to serve a church within that same denomination. You can take each of those components and they have shifted

00:32:13.440 - 00:32:30.820

. For the 21st century student, The 21st century student is increasingly a student of color, older, part time, a local commuter or local resident attending a school that is not necessarily of his or her

00:32:30.820 - 00:32:52.590

denomination and is already engaged in local, local industry context. This person is also usually the sole funder of his or her theological education. Another way to put these changes, students are increasingly less denominational e

00:32:52.600 - 00:33:09.060

and more locally geographically engaged with their seminary. This is why it is not uncommon and indeed it is becoming more common for a latin X. Pentecostal pastor to be trained at the Presbyterian Church USA Seminary.

00:33:14.540 - 00:33:30.950

So the student bodies are changing, I'll say a little bit more about these changing realities and the changing demographics of students Tomorrow, tomorrow morning, 8:30, that's early. But in some ways our schools are

00:33:30.950 - 00:33:49.550

already seeing the signs and effects as I proposed as a vision for McCormick Theological Seminary when I was a present there, that indeed Some of our schools need to think about being 2040 seminaries by 2020. See

00:33:49.550 - 00:34:05.160

by the year 2040 is when most people and most demographic experts believe that we will no longer have a racial ethnic majority in this country. We have many of our schools in the ATS that already have a

00:34:05.160 - 00:34:21.980

majority of student color, students of color in their student population. These realities are affecting not only the student populations of our schools, but indeed the curriculum , the professors, the whole way that the school

00:34:21.980 - 00:34:40.860

operates. You can see in this not only extensive change in theological education, both at the structural level in the delivery and course options that schools are now giving to their students and in the student body itself

00:34:43.140 - 00:34:58.360

. And I think you can also hear elements of hope in this. It is not here hard to hear in these currents, the themes of legacy and innovation that I mentioned earlier. Schools seeking to embody

00:34:58.360 - 00:35:15.360

their historical missions with both continuity and discontinuity. There's both the renewing of centuries old traditions of theological formation of leaders to serve the church and innovations and changes to the model and delivery of these programs to meet

00:35:15.360 - 00:35:28.160

the needs of a much more diverse student population. When that is increasingly a reflection of the year 2040 , when there will not be no racial ethnic majority in this country. And if we think more deeply

00:35:28.160 - 00:35:45.470

about this dynamic between legacy and innovation, it is and has always been the roadmap for the journeying of the people of God, whether it is finding one's God, and once home in a strange land of

00:35:45.470 - 00:36:04.860

Babylonian exile, recovering traditions that you were taught as a child, but now where you think of yourself not as just an Israelite, but a Babylonian Israelites as your traditions began to morph and change where your

00:36:04.860 - 00:36:28.850

home was your parents exile and what your generation below you with dream as you did about a return to homeland that once you returned was not quite home legacy and innovation. Read sometime the poetry and 2nd Isaiah

00:36:29.530 - 00:36:49.160

. And if you don't hear a creative, brilliant mind at work, who also happens to be an awesome poet trying to speak new life into these words . That changed when Israel's reality changed in exile.

00:36:52.130 - 00:37:06.670

Legacy and innovation. Or and this must be the work of the Holy Spirit dr James. Because uh we were both speaking of the Book of Acts, I was one chapter ahead of you in Acts chapter

00:37:06.670 - 00:37:23.650

10 though, Where Peter receives a vision, the vision, the the unbelievable. Even for Peter at this time, vision of God's inclusion of the gentiles , the second readers. Mhm. In the Book

00:37:23.650 - 00:37:38.560

of Acts, we hear of the innovating work of the Holy Spirit who falls where the spirit will fall on ju and gentile alike, to the point where it is indeed the church and not the surrounding nation

00:37:38.780 - 00:37:59.420

that needs to be converted to the mission of God , legacy and innovation. These things are always together . These things are always co partners in what God is doing in the world. Even at the very

00:37:59.420 - 00:38:24.530

beginning, Remember Genesis one and 2 Gods creating spirit hubs hovers above waters of chaos, continuity, discontinuity tradition, re tradition, ng recovery, renewal order and chaos. They all coexist in God's economy,

00:38:24.740 - 00:38:46.990

in God's work in the world. So as things are changing, we can see that indeed they have always been the same in some ways. I think this is our safeguard against idolatry, to think that

00:38:46.990 - 00:39:07.200

we can develop a system to call into existence to buy a simple naming, say, this is how things should be, this is how the church should be. This is how seminary should operate. It

00:39:07.200 - 00:39:23.190

preserves the integrity of the way in which God often surprises us requiring our conversion into what God is doing in the world. There will always be a need for training for discipleship and because of that, there

00:39:23.190 - 00:39:45.030

will always be a need for theological schools. Now what shape and form they take and the students whom they serve these things may change, but indeed to the extent that our schools can continue to be attentive

00:39:45.030 - 00:39:57.840

to and listen to the way that God is working in the world. They will have relevance as it was in the beginning, so it is now and ever shall be world without end, I'm in,

00:40:05.380 - 00:40:53.760

That's something, yeah. Mhm. This you, mm mhm Proficiency of the core competencies assessed at seminaries , who are already doing this. How do they assess those core competencies? So the question was because

00:40:53.760 - 00:41:06.210

I think that we missed just the beginning of that at least, I think maybe the folks in the other room may have, you were asking about competency based education and how are these assessed? Um One

00:41:06.210 - 00:41:17.930

of the things that I find very interesting, I think that this is where the new iteration of CBD is really kind of taken form and shape um, has been that they started in the right place.

00:41:17.940 - 00:41:32.890

You know, I think traditionally as it's as seminaries , we we I think because we're intellectuals, we think we just get smart people in the room, we can develop something good enough and through the years

00:41:32.890 - 00:41:45.700

that's actually borne out pretty well. You know, I think we have a lot of brilliant minds in theological education. But what CBD is getting right right now is that they're first going to the churches and

00:41:45.700 - 00:41:58.500

they're starting with the denominational leaders and say, what is it that you need? What are the skills and competencies that you need? So things that can be character related, spiritually mature, spiritual maturity related

00:41:58.510 - 00:42:14.370

can be named as categories and then based on those categories, then the school will often give itself ways of assessing how these, how these things are being achieved or not. And again in a best systems

00:42:14.370 - 00:42:30.960

process um that is, that feedback loop is continued within a congregation or within a community that presented the first competencies in the first place. Mhm. Hi , real quick. Uh you can go to a

00:42:30.960 - 00:42:44.320

T. S website www dot a T s dot e D U. We have just we have just completed a round of reports from peer groups that have met around some of these different educational models and practices

00:42:44.800 - 00:42:58.070

. Um It was funded through a project by the lilly Endowment and reports have been given one of the , one of the cohort meeting groups was on competency based education. So you can read their report and

00:42:58.070 - 00:43:13.540

what they learned about best practices. Hi, um I'm kind of addressing you in your Hebrew scholar mode because I noticed that a lot of the schools, a lot of the seminaries are dropping the language requirements

00:43:13.550 - 00:43:28.160

. Um, so comment on that and also, you know, is there any should perish pastors? Just be content with believing what the commentaries say? Or is there a place for knowing something about the

00:43:28.160 - 00:43:39.100

languages? And that's, and that's it. It's from very reliable commentators. Right. So, okay . But that's, that's my question, is is there any kind of need anymore for languages or,

00:43:39.110 - 00:43:52.140

or at least the competency to look at a translation program and be able to know some of the nuances that might be there. Well, you're speaking to someone who has taught hebrew and greek. So I

00:43:52.140 - 00:44:05.210

think you'll know my answer. Um, I will , I will never shy away from what I see . That would be the importance of working with the biblical languages. Um, I think it's, it's

00:44:05.210 - 00:44:17.100

not for me, just good um intellectual and sound exegesis and ex general practice. Uh for me it's also a spiritual practice. It's those one reading down um it helps you get out of the way so

00:44:17.100 - 00:44:32.430

that you can listen better. Um and I will say I understand that there is a lot of there's good preaching that I've seen and heard um without necessarily knowledge of Hebrew and greek. Um but I I

00:44:32.430 - 00:44:46.300

think it's a good thing when when the nomination still require it. Um I know our own denomination uh is going to the language of facility with. Um but again, the goal really is within the tradition

00:44:46.790 - 00:44:59.930

. How is it helping to preserve the, the skill, the ability, the competency to be able to preach and read the text? Well, I think that's that's better, the better question more than

00:44:59.930 - 00:45:15.520

should we require Hebrew greek? Are the graduate schools and other professions going through the same changes and what can we learn from them and the other our graduate schools and religion? What are we doing about the

00:45:15.520 - 00:45:34.380

priesthood of all believers and helping other graduate schools really realize there are seminary within their own profession? Excellent . Thank you. So two questions there. Uh , let me address the, the, I forgot

00:45:34.380 - 00:45:50.480

the first question. Now. I'm sorry. So , uh, so other graduate schools and the second question appreciate of all believers. Okay, thank you . Um, so, with regard to other graduate

00:45:50.480 - 00:46:04.440

schools, I will say this, um, as part of this educational models and practices project. Um , one of the final phases of that was, is we're actually bringing together, um, thinkers,

00:46:04.450 - 00:46:20.770

creditors of, of different professional schools, graduate professional schools, because we're finding that indeed these things are happening all across the industry, so to speak. Uh, legal legal studies is changing. Um and

00:46:20.770 - 00:46:36.390

they're and they're rethinking the way that they need to assess in a credit legal education, doctoral medical doctoral training is changing. And the ways in which uh , that profession is seeking to do education and formation

00:46:36.400 - 00:46:49.360

is all shifting. So one of the ends of this project with the models and practices is to gather this wisdom from these other professions and these other graduate professional programs to hear what we learn about it.

00:46:49.370 - 00:47:04.340

And we're findings and that will also be published as as part of our findings. So the second question priesthood of all believers. Um again, I must sound like a little bit of an advertisement for this

00:47:04.340 - 00:47:16.530

Educational Models project, but we had a significant percentage of the schools participate at schools, participate in some way, shape or form in this project. One of the things that we're finding as well is that

00:47:16.530 - 00:47:30.120

these programs are being delivered to very, um, you might call them non traditional audiences. So, for example, roman catholic seminaries are now offering the occasional training. Um and that that's part of their

00:47:30.120 - 00:47:45.580

program, that's and they remember catholic seminaries have for a long time offered lay training for those within lay leadership. Um, These are the these are the ways in which I think theological education expanding, expanding

00:47:45.590 - 00:48:00.300

, but we're also seeing it in terms of how our graduates are using their degrees, they're often not going into, or I should say not often, but increasingly they're not going into clergy, kind of

00:48:00.300 - 00:48:12.290

professional roles, they're often serving, they may still serve at the church, they may be an educator , uh, they may be a chaplain, um serving in a hospital or even in airports. There

00:48:12.290 - 00:48:22.680

is actually a very recent article about airport chaplains. Uh, so, uh, there are many different kinds of contexts and, and the nonprofit sector is another place where we're finding a lot of graduates going

00:48:22.680 - 00:48:37.040

to. So we're finding a lot of different ways that, um, folks are moving into different kinds of professions, I think, which gives a vocational flavor to the priesthood of all believers. So my

00:48:37.040 - 00:48:52.470

question is a little bit of a segue from that , and it has to do with pastoral identity when I went to seminary in the early 90s, which seems a lot longer ago, um,, the focus

00:48:52.470 - 00:49:08.150

was on pastor as scholar, as well as pastor as pastoral person, but the education was focused on pastor as scholar. Um, and your discussion just a few minutes ago about people in seminary going into

00:49:08.150 - 00:49:25.890

a variety of different contexts. Also, um, focuses me again on the question of pastor in those different contexts, and the education is geared in any place to come to a certain understanding of ourselves as

00:49:25.890 - 00:49:45.530

leaders in a community. So as you look at the changes in education that have been coming and will continue, what is your vision of pastor or leadership of someone who finishes that education and then launches into

00:49:45.530 - 00:49:55.470

the world? Okay, thank you. It's a great question, and this would not be my vision I think, and again, what I hear is what we're seeing in the schools. But let me

00:49:55.470 - 00:50:07.440

just kind of do a quick survey of all of you. Um, you know, we did this with our alums. When I was president McCormick, I asked, we asked the question if there was

00:50:07.440 - 00:50:19.500

a class that we could have offered you in your curriculum, that would have helped for your pastoral formation , but you did not get or you did not take for whatever reason, what would that class have

00:50:19.500 - 00:50:36.830

been Conflict resolution? That there's one. Right? So some of you have worked now with elder boards and you know that that's a reality, right? Administration. This is this is one, at least

00:50:36.830 - 00:50:45.980

with a survey that we did with our lands. This was the number one answer. You don't know how to manage people, you don't know how to manage the books, You don't know how to manage

00:50:45.980 - 00:50:58.540

the property. Right? So this all these kinds of things of administration um which we do teach in our some of our schools let us be clear. I mean we we we have offered courses like that

00:50:58.540 - 00:51:14.340

. I know it's our schools offered courses like that on the leadership and administration, but somehow it's not as um you don't find as many willing students to take that class than to take a, you know

00:51:14.350 - 00:51:27.500

, Janis reading the book of genesis or carl Bart and contemporaries. I mean, these, you know , these are kind of the classes that I remember from seminary or um, even some of my favorites

00:51:27.500 - 00:51:37.460

Liberation Theology was much rather than in the Liberation Theology course, than I would have been a church administration class. And yet, what our students say, I wish I would have taken that. So to

00:51:37.460 - 00:51:52.040

answer the question. And this little survey is my sense, is that what pastoral leaders have always found is that the formation really doesn't end at seminary. And indeed, we set our we set we set

00:51:52.040 - 00:52:07.680

our leaders up for failure to think that that there's this, there's this really sharp demarcation between graduation and service that indeed your formation is going to continue. But we don't have quite the structures in place for

00:52:07.680 - 00:52:23.030

that learning to continue in the congregational context. Now , schools have figured out many different ways to try and address this residency programs, internships, mentoring programs , but this is what we hear. Pastoral identity

00:52:23.030 - 00:52:37.900

is shifting because a lot of what was handled sometimes by churches in a former generation, by staffs are now handled by a single single solo pastor who may not even be full time. So it is changing

00:52:37.900 - 00:52:57.190

the nature of pastoral identity. And I think something that has to go alongside with that idea of pastoral identity is pastoral health, because you can't expect someone to be an all inclusive, all options person who

00:52:57.200 - 00:53:14.200

, who figures out every problem and then have them not only serving part time, but then probably working another job, um, and being exhausted and threatened with burnout. So we have two questions from the

00:53:14.200 - 00:53:23.760

Mcmillan building, and I think as I read the second one, we're all agreed, that's a good time to take a break for lunch. So the first question have best practices been identified at schools were

00:53:23.760 - 00:53:39.210

in, there is a plurality of students of color as to how to best retain these students um Again and why? Why? Why? Why there's a little pregnant pause and all my questions is uh,

00:53:39.220 - 00:53:50.820

you know, I think it was much easier as the president of an individual school to answer how we did it um is much more difficult to speak on behalf of all the schools. Um I think different

00:53:50.820 - 00:54:06.310

schools have tried different strategies that have worked not just to retain but to recruit students of color. Often , as I said, it may often be more reflection about being intentional, a school being intentional about

00:54:06.320 - 00:54:22.480

the location in which is situated to the city that it resides. Um because the trends really seem to be pointing in the direction that students are often now more local than denominational e um based when it comes

00:54:22.480 - 00:54:37.390

to attending seminary. Uh, so, um, paying attention to the demographics of the of your area , building relationships with those churches so that it's not just, uh again, a this um de contextualized

00:54:37.390 - 00:54:50.760

recruiting process is a recruiting process of a community as well as the community's leaders, but there are many different practices that that um schools have used. Uh there was a project done by A. T.

00:54:50.760 - 00:55:09.160

S Almost a decade ago, the 2040 project where schools were actually given grant money to work on a strategic plan that sought to enhance the institution's ability to serve a more diverse public. And it could be

00:55:09.160 - 00:55:24.850

that we're rounding the bend toward another project like that . And our last question for this session, I'd like to ask josh Kerr, an overflow room to stand up. He's from Perry, Oklahoma, josh

00:55:24.860 - 00:55:44.210

asked question for frank when he joined his first church . Was he the hippie or the surfer? Mhm . Well, um I can answer you with the