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Well, good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to cultivating ideas. Uh My name is Shawn Watkins and I serve as Associate Dean for lifelong learning here at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary. And we are in for a

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rare treat. Today, we have the wonderful Reverend Doctor Bobby K Jones, who is going to be facilitating uh our discussion and giving us our lecture for today. Uh Reverend Doctor Bobby K Jones uh is

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an ordained minister in the United Presbyterian Church. She retired in 2018 from her appointment to the Tarrytown United Methodist Church in Austin, Texas where she served for six years. Uh She was invited in 2019 to

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be the fourth holder of the Lewis H and Catherine S Zenden, distinguished chair of pastoral ministry and leadership . She teaches the practical areas of pastoral ministry, church administration, congregational, leadership, stewardship, and

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liturgy. Bobby Kay's topic today is based on in-person pastoral visits with several of our former students who graduated during COVID'S early days, as well as some who started seminary while they were online. Uh Ladies and

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gentlemen, please welcome Reverend Doctor Bobby K Jones. Hi, everyone. It's so good to see former students, friends, et cetera. Um today and thank you, Sean for uh joining many people who

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confer a doctoral degree upon I who do not have one. But thank you. Thank you, uh receive it gladly. Um Let's take a breath. I know I could use one. I just came

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into my office from a wonderful senior sermon and I am uh overflowing with gratitude for being here today with you and for Sean and Michael. What you all are doing to facilitate these conversations. It is good

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to be together. So here's what I am hoping for our time together today. These, these four things. First, I'm gonna remind us about our seminary context, our seminary context for this presentation on

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commiserations and commitment. I'm gonna reflect on the broader cultural dashboard about pastors and congregations. I'm gonna report from the road, what I heard and what it meant and then we'll have time for comments and questions

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. So that is what I am hoping for us in our time. And as we begin, uh let us pray. Oh God, who gives us breath? We are grateful for the gift of the

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day, the hour of community we will spend and the opportunity to shed and share your love and grace abroad in the name of all that is Holy Amen . So I guess I'd like you to imagine this

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presentation as a bridge, a bridge between our engagement with students on campus and the embodiment of that engagement after graduation, a bridge between our labor on this campus and the flowering and the fruiting of that labor

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out in the world. A bridge between our input on this campus and the outflow and the impact in your communities and your congregations. So my, my responsibility as the Zenden chair is to bring my experience

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as a pastor and denominational leader to provide guidance and hope to the next generation of church leaders. It's in the catalog to provide guidance and hope to the next generation of church leaders and I've been so privileged

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to be able to do that. So the question is, how's that going? Hows that going? I imagine you've heard a lot about how it's going . I imagined you experience influence ponder and pray about

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this every day because current facts tell a particular story about American Christendom and backs are backs. My friends , fewer Americans attend church. A smaller percentage of churchgoers are involved in small groups. The post shutdown

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bounce is over and whoever is coming back has probably already done so. And it's not just COVID. The Great Durch was published last August. And in that book, I read more people have left the

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church in the last 25 years. Then all the new people who became Christians from the first great awakening , the second great awakening and all the Billy Graham crusades combined. That book says, every Christian knows

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someone who used to go to church who doesn't anymore . That is true for me. Is that true for you? As many have said, we've got to stop blaming COVID and we do have to stop

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. But while there are many, many reasons for the great de turing COVID had and has had a visible impact. So here, here's how I illustrate this to folks if you know the children's game.

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Sorry, there's something in the game rules called a sorry slide. And when you land on the first space of a slide, no matter how you got there, you move all the way to the end

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of it. Now, when you're playing the game , that slide moves you forward, which might be good news, COVID, I believe, landed all congregations on the slide and likely slid them forward a

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decade or so into their predictable future. Churches that were growing are likely now stable. Churches that were stable, likely are now stable and declining and churches that were declining are now a decade closer to leaving

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whatever legacy is theirs to leave. Now, of course, United Methodists have decided to really pile on covid's impact and, uh we are going through in this moment what Presbyterians and other mainline denominations have already

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experienced if you're interested. And even if you're not , I'm still gonna tell you a couple things about this. We're gonna lose about a quarter of our churches. That's around 8000 churches in the United States

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. 63% of those churches that are disaffiliating have 50 members or fewer the overwhelming majority of disaffiliating churches are located in the south and southeast of the United States and are 97% white with a geographic overlay that parallels

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the last split of a similar scale which was during , you know, the civil war and disaffiliating churches are overwhelmingly led by a male pastor without a master of divinity degree, which brings us back to what

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we do here for folks like us, like us with commitment, deep commitment to residential theological education and formation. The statistics about the American church are not telling a great story right now. And while that

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story may not be great, it is also true that each of us, each of you, all of our students, faculty, staff, trustees have a love story with the church and with this place

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, I know I do as some of you know , um 53 years ago, my undergraduate dorm room overlooked the seminary campus. I came to U T in liberal arts because I saw no way to follow

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my call into ordained ministry as I had never seen a woman pastor, never seen one seven years. It was seven years later that I matriculated signing my name in the great book of names along with six

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other women. In that entering class of 21 M div students, one of whom a very tall man used to periodically lean over me with such sincerity over and mcmillan and say, I just don't understand why

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you're here. My three years here were transforming, enriching, mind blowing, life, changing life shaping . I can tell you moments, the class, the lecture, the professor, the fellow students,

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when theological education formation embedded in me and dear ones , the same is happening right here. Right now . I wish every one of you could have been at Midwinter for the lectures and preaching of course,

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but also to hear our students as they stood to ask questions, testifying about their experience. Here we are as our mission states, educating and equipping people for ordained Christian ministry and other forms of Christian service

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and leadership. We are as our mission states. Every time you leave any portion of our campus, even though the walking path by the creek, the sign reminds come to learn, depart to surf.

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So I'm here today as a bridge beyond, beyond the party because my focus as Zin and chair is kind of what happens after. So how's that going ? So I'm gonna tell you about my trip last

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fall, but I'm not the only one talking to folk on behalf of this seminary in June 2020. Reverend Doctor Eileen Campbell. Reed was already researching how the pandemic and concurrent social uprisings were impacting the life

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and work of clergy. In 2021 our Dean David Jensen contacted her for additional research. And in September of 2022 we received her report pandemic pestering what it was like how it changed us. Where do we

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go from here. Well, here's where I went last fall. Oh, also, yo, this is getting to about the length of my normal sermon . And so I'm feeling really anxious like I should

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stop talking now and we should have a hymn. Uh I'm gonna press on just a few more minutes and I have a joke but no one thinks it's funny. A priest, a rabbit and a minister

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walk into a bar. The bartender says, what are you having? The rabbit says, I don't know. I'm only here because of autocorrect. Anyone . Thank you, Kathy. Anyone. Anyway,

00:13:01.120 - 00:13:20.670

so here's about my trip. Wh why, why do this? Well, along with all my colleagues , I care deeply about the post seminary experience of our graduates because of my professional history. I identified

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keenly with their lived realities in congregations and organizations and for our graduates of 2020 2021 it felt as if when they departed to serve, we just sent them out on an ice floe into a raging blizzard.

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The first two years of ministry are challenging all on their own and my heart has remained heavy for our two COVID classes. So I made a plan, I got permission to go and see how and where

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they were. So I'm gonna tell you how I went and then I'm gonna tell you what I think on Sunday, September 10th last fall after all day , celebrating the 75th anniversary of a church. We

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had served my husband David and I boarded a plane two months later, after four flights, plus driving over 4000 miles across 15 states. I was back in my office and I wanted to see a lot

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of people. It was harder than I thought. First, only graduates who had been my students responded to my outreach. Zendon chair courses are elective only if folks knew us. They wanted to see us

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. Second challenge people's lives that visiting route was remade so many times to accommodate the realities of graduates church and personal schedules. So eventually, outside of folks in Texas, David and I were able to see

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13 grads in visits ranging from 2 to 10 hours of the 13, five are currently pastor in charge . Four are associates, one is associate director at a camp, two were chaplains, a couple have

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left the Presbyterian Church. Five of the 13 were already in their second spot. At least two others are thinking about moving, but none of them are planning to exit ministry. The guiding questions for our

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visits were what is good and what is hard about being in ministry at this time? And how could we have prepared you better? What is good? They love their people, they love most of their

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work. They took to heart their theological education and formation in this place. They are discerning and reaffirming their call as they discover particular passions and surprising capacity for the difficult work of ministry. And this next

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point is key those that are in the best places , the best places that have supportive and appreciative supervisors , adequate resources, time to prepare healthy lay leadership , congregational support. Those that are in the best

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places are doing the best. Those with more distractions isolation, cranky, cranky colleagues, or congregants old unresolved church conflicts, secret missions, under-resourced, overworked . Those folks are doing less well, which brings

00:18:06.230 - 00:18:26.230

us to what is hard. So right before we left on our trip, that viral great resignation blog post made the rounds of Presbyterians citing a recent Barna Group poll uh reporting the following difficulties with ministry.

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The immense stress of the job, 56% feeling lonely and isolated. 43% current political divisions, 38% unhappy with the effect the role has on the pastor's family . 29% and number five loss of optimism about the

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future of the church. 29% of clergy cited that now across the board, our graduates identified with one through four stress, isolation, politics, family, but not with five. They can see issues at

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their church without the loss of optimism expressed by longer term clergy. Most of our graduates face particular while similar challenges in their congregations or organizations. My husband David and I consulted on some issue at literally every

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stop. I loved it. It was so satisfying to bring a combined 80 years of experience, time to listen deeply to ask questions and process together and what are they facing? You can probably answer that

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yourself. I know the pastors in this room can , what do you think discourages our graduates? Just pop one or two words into the chat. If you can imagine what discourages our graduates. Yeah.

00:20:45.770 - 00:21:07.170

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And as I heard from every single woman and as Eileen Campbell Reed previously reported, our women graduates in 2023 2022 2021 2020

00:21:07.480 - 00:21:26.870

. Indeed experience the consistent drip of sexism. Our women graduates get patted on the head. I mean , literally not just figuratively, one of them had a finger waved in her face and told her not

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to be so direct. I'm just saying. So what is hard this season in American Christendom is hard starting around 2008. Um United Methodists were asked to face the possibility of deep change or slow death.

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When I was a district superintendent, I had responsibility for 65 churches in central Texas by looking at 20 year history of a congregation's vital signs, membership, attendance, deaths, baptisms, outreach. I could

00:22:07.560 - 00:22:26.470

then and probably could now tell just about how long the church had and I worked diligently compassionately with many churches resourcing them in ways to take steps toward new life. But I cannot tell you how often I

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heard I just want my church to be open long enough for me to be, you know what I'm saying? Buried here. So I read recently in an article from a church consultant from a more evangelical

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tradition perhaps, but he said, uh their firm had had more requests for consultations in 2023 than ever in his career. And he was often asked by those seeking consultations, what is your success rate?

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He tells them it's about 50% which nobody likes that . Um And when they say, well, why he says, because congregations don't wanna act on our recommendations. They pay us to bring our wisdom to

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bear on their particular situation, their particular pinch or pain and then they don't listen to what might help them. And he gives four reasons that has been true. First, recommendations often include a plan for

00:23:36.200 - 00:23:51.170

the church to be more faithful to the Great Commission and that is the recommendation most often resisted. And I know and you know, that research says the biggest barrier to new people coming to church is that

00:23:51.180 - 00:24:10.550

current members don't invite them. If someone is invited to visit a church by a trusted friend, they almost certainly will. And the biggest barrier to new people staying is that current members are often interested in

00:24:10.560 - 00:24:23.990

their participation in their pocketbook but not their perspective come , help us do what we are already doing, you know, just what we're already doing. So that's number one, number two church members focus and

00:24:25.000 - 00:24:41.160

fight over even the most minor recommendations. They don't get to the major things because they will spend hours resisting new signage or removing a few pews. Number three church members are ready to accept change until the

00:24:41.170 - 00:24:59.090

change affects them. So the consultants show up saying uh we will likely recommend changes and people go that's fine. That's fine until the cha the recommendation impacts their worship service or the room or time or day

00:24:59.100 - 00:25:15.040

their small group meets. You know what I'm talking about. So now remember my questions on the road , what is good? What is hard about being in ministry at this time? What is good we

00:25:15.050 - 00:25:32.470

have provided transforming, enriching, mind blowing, life , changing life shaping theological education. And our graduates more often than not even in the really good places , walk into positions where number four church members expect

00:25:32.480 - 00:25:51.300

a silver bullet, more young people, a younger pastor, a different leadership style, shorter sermons, longer sermons, more scriptural, more relevant, more justice, less political. The unspoken expectation is we'd

00:25:51.310 - 00:26:10.840

like our church to be about 1% shinier than we are. And we'd like you the new pastor, our recent graduate to make it so well. Also not changing anything that matters to me. So I'm

00:26:10.850 - 00:26:26.860

learning to be ready for wise words to come from our president's lips. But I I did nearly come out of my chair in January when he closed Midwinter lectures by bringing the metaphor of isthmus into the room

00:26:26.310 - 00:26:41.330

and isthmus as you know, is a narrow strip of land, the sea on either side forming a link between two larger areas of land. Immediately. I thought of the bridge to ministry idea which several

00:26:41.340 - 00:26:56.330

of us have been working on for over a year . What is good? What is hard, how could we have prepared you better? And this was the song sung in all keys from the graduates that

00:26:56.340 - 00:27:11.920

we spoke to last fall. Give us a little more of what we need to show up, mostly competent for the things that will take up so much of our time and then be available to continue to

00:27:11.930 - 00:27:34.110

support us as we learn on the job. So friends um and this is what I think this is the what I think part on the seminary side of the larger areas of land back to the isthmus idea

00:27:34.210 - 00:27:49.830

. We are equipping. We are building very fine , very expensive 21st century cars. They are ready for this century and then we are sending them onto the other area of land. Just go with me

00:27:49.840 - 00:28:08.370

here onto the other area of land where they may have to get from place to place on 20th century roads or 19th, some unpaved and unmaintained. I'm sending them with a head and computer full of emerging

00:28:08.380 - 00:28:26.130

excellence and asking them to operate on leaded fuel or self repair with parts. From a 1958 Rambler ambassador . We invest a lot of money. Yes, but also ourselves, our heads and our hearts.

00:28:26.140 - 00:28:41.950

We pour in to our graduates and the first few years of ministry can just take it out. When Ted Wardlaw asked me to take this position. I talked with him about my desire to connect with churches

00:28:42.240 - 00:29:06.270

and search committees and committee's own ministry and all that . I have had a purple note on my desk for nearly five years that says help churches with their attitudes, you know, COVID blah, blah,

00:29:07.280 - 00:29:23.060

it didn't work out to get to that work And that's and that's ok because now I just think we can get on that isthmus that bridge to sustain the graduates we have trained. So they will remain in

00:29:23.070 - 00:29:38.930

the calling. God has placed upon their lives, train sustain, remain. You know, there's a , there is a second definition for isthmus and it is an anatomical definition. It is a narrow organ

00:29:38.940 - 00:30:00.300

or passage or piece of tissue connecting two larger parts . And I don't know about you, but that makes me think of the body of Christ. Our Austin Seminary mission includes these words to employ our resources

00:30:00.310 - 00:30:26.450

for the nurture of the church. Train sustain, remain. So what more can we do to bring our experience time to listen, deeply, ask questions and process together to bridge our labor on this campus

00:30:26.630 - 00:30:45.140

toward the flowering of the fruit, to bridge our input toward the outflow. God's work in the world , in your communities, in your congregations. Thank you so much for letting me blather on for 30

00:30:45.150 - 00:31:04.250

minutes. God bless reverend doctor Bobby K Jones. That was outstanding. Thank you so much. Thank you immensely. Uh, in the African American tradition , we bestow respect on you at the highest level

00:31:04.260 - 00:31:15.140

from teaching and preaching by calling you a doctor, whether you have one or not that speaks to my information of you and what you just presented to us that was outstanding. Thank you immensely, truly for

00:31:15.150 - 00:31:22.640

that. Um We've got some time for discussion. So if you've got questions for, uh Reverend Bob K Jones, by all means, please drop those in the chat. We'd love to be able to

00:31:22.650 - 00:31:33.520

hear from you if you've got questions and thoughts, um, we're gonna interact for about another 20 to 25 minutes or so before we call it so specific questions on what she referenced, uh, as you're

00:31:33.530 - 00:31:41.520

gathering those questions. Um I wanna circle back to , uh Bobby, one of the, one of the statements that you made, uh, you said of the alum. Um I'm paraphrasing, but give

00:31:41.530 - 00:31:55.190

us more of what we need that will take up much of our time on the job. And I , that is just an excellent and amazing reflection. I got license to preach in the Black Baptist tradition

00:31:55.200 - 00:32:07.000

. Back in 2005, I came on staff within a varsity, which is an evangelical organization in 2005 to do ministry and both in being licensed in that church and preaching and teaching there. And my time

00:32:07.010 - 00:32:22.080

with varsity. None of which was in our training and orientation or prepared us for the realities of ministry . And so that statement is so profound, I feel like most much of seminary education and much of

00:32:22.480 - 00:32:37.420

uh the formation that we have in terms of our ordination. It just does not prepare us for the realities of divorce or moral failure or political divisions or family trauma or abuse or any of the things that

00:32:37.430 - 00:32:45.820

happened from pastoring community. So, such an excellent employment, uh reflection. Thank you so much for that. Again, if you've got questions for Reverend Bobby K Jones, please drop those in the chat

00:32:45.830 - 00:32:54.490

. Love to be able to hear from you. Um If you're able to uh and you run a place that has good sound. So there's not, you know, a hurricane behind you. You're more

00:32:54.500 - 00:33:07.510

than welcome to come off mute and ask those questions as well too. Again, we'll, we'll have a dial off for about 20 minutes or so. Yeah, I'd love to hear, you know,

00:33:07.520 - 00:33:29.210

more voices from, from the road. Don't make me call on you, but I will like everyone is so shy. You were so profound. They're just, they're overflowing with questions. They can't even

00:33:29.220 - 00:33:42.740

ask them or type them. Yes, we've got one from Carlos. He says, uh what do these pastors say? What is the more of what they need? What do pastors say is more of

00:33:42.750 - 00:34:00.980

what they do, the more of what they need ? So they talk about the more of what they need. Yeah. Mhm. I, mm, you know, it's, it's a little bit different

00:34:00.990 - 00:34:16.740

for everyone as it should be. Um, I , I, some of what I hear is, um, in a sense, uh, reassurance that you're not crazy, normalizing some of the experiences that

00:34:16.750 - 00:34:31.120

we have in ministry that are similar, even if not identical. Uh, yes, that, yes , that happened to me. Yes. Therefore, you know, it's, it's not about you.

00:34:31.130 - 00:34:49.110

You didn't cause certain things, the way organizations behave . Churches of a certain size tend to function very similarly. Churches at similar points in a life cycle are gonna function similarly. And um and so I

00:34:49.120 - 00:35:07.730

think, I think it's the, the, the management of relationships and people is really, um I think at the heart of what can be so hurtful and cause uh pinch points, pain points. Absolutely

00:35:07.740 - 00:35:21.260

wonderful. Thank you for that. Yeah. Other folks. Questions for Bobby Kay. Yes. Yes . Did the folks? Yes. Yes, they did seem to be helpful. Um And that,

00:35:21.560 - 00:35:37.210

and that was, you know, that was a great blessing. Um to hear that, that they were experiencing all the, all the hard things and yet they were not um giving up on the,

00:35:37.750 - 00:35:55.210

not giving up on the purpose of the church uh as having AAA role and a place in this hurting world, the church as still a place to address people's hopes and hurts. Um They were not giving

00:35:55.220 - 00:36:06.920

they were not giving up on that. Uh We've got um, one comment in the chat that was in pros, they want to remain anonymous. So I wanna read that one to you and then we

00:36:06.930 - 00:36:16.350

got a question for you as well. Uh This person wrote, talk to us about the realities of congregations looking for that silver bullet to solve all problems . They're looking for it. I think you mentioned

00:36:16.590 - 00:36:30.920

that one graduate fresh out of seminary uh that's going to solve all of the issues in this church that's been around for 200 years. But this 27 year old bright eyed bushy tailed seminarian with no experience is

00:36:30.930 - 00:36:44.590

gonna come in and fix everything. Talk to us about that silver bullet that congregations look for. Well . Yeah. And, and, and it isn't uh that everyone in the congregation is looking for the

00:36:44.600 - 00:36:58.860

same looking for the same thing, you know, um which, which again then adds, adds to the as to the challenge and the excitement for uh for clergy. And this can be clergy of any

00:36:59.120 - 00:37:13.770

, any stage, any age, moving into a new position. There is the stated goal for you and then there are all the unstated expectations and those are the ones you find out about when you get

00:37:13.780 - 00:37:30.860

there. Um The congregation can say, um you know, we want you to help us be more missional in the community and then when you help them do that, they're mad or enough of them are

00:37:30.870 - 00:37:44.820

mad that they can uh cause pinching and, and pain. Um So the silver bullet can always be something that you, the pastor cannot deliver. I can never be younger. I can never be a

00:37:44.830 - 00:37:59.140

man. You know, I can never be all the things that I cannot be. And if that's the elusive element that the congregation says, well, and it's typically about restoring them to something they remember

00:38:00.010 - 00:38:27.250

congregations, you know, tend to know more about who they were than who they are. And there's that longing for going. Yeah, I'm looking over here. Um uh huh. Uh huh. Yeah

00:38:27.260 - 00:38:43.580

, I'm looking at Gloria's uh comment and question and I am, um I, I, I'm not sure I can answer that question without more information as to whether or not it would help a church to

00:38:43.590 - 00:39:01.520

heal and grow. Maybe it might. Um Yeah . Yeah. Cathy, I, I agree how to lovingly offer an alternative to bad theology because you get people just a little bit a week and,

00:39:01.530 - 00:39:16.480

and everything else gets them all the rest of the time. And I think that actually speaks to something Jonathan is raising about, um, the role of the pastor changing in the olden days. Y'all.

00:39:16.490 - 00:39:34.650

We were the um the one people turn to for a direction uh for information, for biblical knowledge, you know, in the olden olden days, the pastor, the parson, they were the educated person

00:39:34.660 - 00:39:53.320

in town. Now, we're just one of the voices. Um, and everyone is gathering their information from that funnel. Feed me what I like to eat. Yeah. Hm. Uh, but yeah

00:39:53.330 - 00:40:06.540

, I have a question for you as well to , um, so I waited 10 years to go back to se to get my MD. I started back in 2014. I've been in full time ministry

00:40:06.550 - 00:40:15.920

for 10 years and I'm glad that I went back at 31 and not fresh out of college at 21 . Because I always say I had similac on my breath. I didn't know anything. I was very

00:40:15.930 - 00:40:24.680

much a baby and was still young even at 31 . But I knew enough that I could be in my seminary classes to realize that some of what was being taught could not be lived, that it was

00:40:24.690 - 00:40:37.400

great um theological conversations. It was a great seminary reflection, but that was not true of the streets . That was not true of a lived experience across cultures. Um And the presentation that you gave today

00:40:37.410 - 00:40:50.070

was absolutely masterful. You not only took in the insights of our alum, but you articulated them and expand in profound ways. Talk to us about your journey because you are a professor at a seminary.

00:40:50.250 - 00:41:00.660

It's very easy for us to be in the academic lane and to only think academically or theologically or from a head space. But you've talked about a theology and a pastoral experience that has to be lived that

00:41:00.660 - 00:41:16.230

is relevant to people. Talk to us about that . How did you arrive uh on this journey of being someone who is deeply practical, even in your theological formation? I, I think to say it

00:41:16.240 - 00:41:37.180

fairly quickly. Um I, I didn't know if I would make it through my first year and I made it 40 years. And so I, I just kept trying to show up and learn and,

00:41:38.310 - 00:41:51.070

and I, I do say this to students because I talk a lot about terrible things. I talk a lot about awful things and how the church can be terrible. And, and, and I also

00:41:51.080 - 00:42:07.450

say that uh if you asked me right now, would I do it all again? I would say yes, I would, I would even go through the things I went through. Um And I would

00:42:07.460 - 00:42:24.780

do it all again because the blessings so far outweighed the cursing. And it was, it, it is so hard to, to, to focus on the fact that, you know, these people really

00:42:24.790 - 00:42:40.420

don't like me. But these people over here, we are having some just like in seminaries, some transforming life, changing conversations that then go on to multiply grace and goodness in the world. And,

00:42:40.430 - 00:42:55.200

and we heard about this in our senior sermon today , but that is, you know, multiplying grace and goodness uh continuing to love in the face of not love. Uh That is what my faith calls

00:42:55.210 - 00:43:10.590

me to. And I see so many um living , you know, living that I, I, I, I, I'm a good Methodist. John mostly was like, first do no harm, do

00:43:10.600 - 00:43:22.520

good, do no harm. Stay in love with God. And really what I'm trying to do in my work here is reduce harm for clergy. I want our folk to get out of here and at

00:43:22.530 - 00:43:35.440

least remember, oh, Bobby Kay said this might happen. It's not about me. It's not my fault. I didn't do it. It's just the way things are. Uh So if I can make

00:43:35.450 - 00:43:50.680

any, any of our graduates, day, week , month or year a little lighter, then that , that's, that's why I'm here. Excellent. But AJ has added a reflection. Thank you so

00:43:50.690 - 00:44:00.470

much for sharing that AJ added a reflection in the chat as well too. Uh They say that's so encouraging to hear about not knowing if you would make it through your first year as a second career MD

00:44:00.480 - 00:44:09.930

, a student, the first year of the new career field, uh impossible resonates. And it's also to hear that someone who had a multi decade career , sure that they too had that feeling. So

00:44:09.930 - 00:44:22.750

definitely that deep feeling of insecurity or in a uh in approaching seminary at whatever stage in your career, whether it's a first or a second career choice. Absolutely. I would make it through every se every

00:44:23.060 - 00:44:35.200

A, I mean, I wanted to quit seminary every semester too, but when you don't do it , that first seminary when you make it through the first semester, then even when that day came the

00:44:35.210 - 00:44:43.530

next semester. And I was like, I, there's no way I can do this then I was like, well, I did it then. Maybe I can do it now, you know. So

00:44:43.540 - 00:44:54.270

it's just that sort of looking over the shoulder and seeing Psalm 139 Rachel's got, thank you for that . Rachel's got a question to that as well too . Uh I just went through the process of seeking

00:44:54.280 - 00:45:06.670

a call last summer and so many churches were seeking a pastor for two churches because one could not sustain a full time pastor. This requires in some ways a special skill set, uh, a special skill

00:45:06.680 - 00:45:20.590

set rather and strong boundaries. How could seminaries help prepare us for that as we are seeking to become more and more the reality? That is a, a great statement of reality. And, uh,

00:45:20.600 - 00:45:37.120

honestly, I do not think we have yet you writing that down, Sean? I honestly don't think we have talked about that enough in terms of seminary curriculum. Um, because so much of what we

00:45:37.130 - 00:45:51.190

do is, you know, you know, theology is theology, whether it's nine churches or one church , whether it's a three point charge or 2500 members , you know, and, but then the practical

00:45:51.200 - 00:46:05.990

aspects of managing two or three churches or my, my nephew, Todd, you may have known him , Todd Jones. He has three jobs. He's half time at a church, quarter, time district

00:46:06.000 - 00:46:22.630

youth coordinator, quarter time campus ministry, three jobs . And I just look at him and I'm like , are you working too hard because everyone, everyone wants everything and those boundaries are so hard for us

00:46:22.440 - 00:46:35.670

. People. Loving God, loving people. Thank you for the, thank you very much for that question. We've written it down. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna pay attention to that and

00:46:35.680 - 00:46:43.030

it's huge and it's huge. Absolutely. And then here we'll close with this. It's a final reflection . I think something from AJ. And if there's a parting word you want to give to us,

00:46:43.040 - 00:46:52.300

uh Reverend Bobby K, by all means AJ says , I highly recommend pivot by Jenny Blake. It's uh building a part time consulting position during the seminar to be able to take a part time position at

00:46:52.310 - 00:47:01.590

church. They can't afford a full time person as needed. Uh, pivot helped him figure through or help them figure through whether some of those important decisions around finances, stewardship of time and energy. And

00:47:01.600 - 00:47:12.190

so there are resources that are out there. It sounds like AJ is saying and Reverend Bobby Kay has made reference to those as well too, that this is becoming a, a very common occurrence for pastors

00:47:12.200 - 00:47:22.110

that have to have multiple jobs, multiple hats and apparently lead multiple conversation congregations rather. Um Reverend Bobby Kay, as we come to a close, any final thoughts, you want to be able to share

00:47:22.120 - 00:47:30.660

with us as we kind of land the plane this afternoon. Thank you again for an amazing presentation. Anything else kind of germinating in you as we come to a close this afternoon? Well, both Rachel

00:47:30.670 - 00:47:46.680

and AJ and I mean, all of all of you who put something in there, you, you led me to remembering a hymn, um a charge to keep I have, which includes the line to

00:47:46.690 - 00:48:02.090

serve the present age, my calling to fulfill. And this is not, this is not the church my mother was baptized into when she was 30 pregnant with me. This is not the church I grew

00:48:02.100 - 00:48:16.250

up in. This is not the church I did most of my ministry in, but it is the church into which we are called in this moment in this time in this season. And, and it's

00:48:16.260 - 00:48:31.060

, you are called, you are called as our senior sermon just said for such a time as this . So cling to that, it is an exciting time because it's a pivoting time and a pivotal time

00:48:31.110 - 00:48:52.290

. It's exciting. And um remember remember how great you are, how good you are. Thank you . Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful parting pastoral words. Thank you so much, Reverend Bobby K Jones for

00:48:52.300 - 00:49:00.110

sharing with us these reflections from alumni hope this has been a gift and a privilege to each and every one of you. Uh join us next week. Our Reverend Doctor Andrew Zerk will be presenting for us

00:49:00.120 - 00:49:05.750

as well. And so, uh until then take care, we hope you have a fantastic day blessings