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Friends, I'm going to invite you to have a seat so that we can go ahead and begin our afternoon. And I am so excited for each of you because I'm excited for our speaker this afternoon, Doctor Jared Alcantra, who is the professor of preaching,

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holder of the Paul W Powell Endowed Chair of Preaching at Truitt Seminary, which is part of Baylor University, where he is also director of the Kyle Lake Center for Effective Preaching. Now, one of the things that he overseas in

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this capacity are two amazing conferences. One just happened at the end of January, a Hispanic preachers conference that is open to all, but particularly serves those who are Hispanics preaching in Hispanic contacts.

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So look ahead, save the date for next year at the end of January, where this two day event will cost about $40, which is a steal for a amazing speakers and great opportunities.

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And then coming up in September at the end of the month, September 29th through October 1st of of this year will be the African American Preaching Conference, which is a three day event. Registering closer to the event, it's about $100.

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If you register ahead of time, it'll be less than that, which again, is a great deal for the amazing speakers that they'll be bringing in. And I hear this year they're honoring Reverend Dr. Cleophis LaRue, who is a wonderful preacher.

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Both both Jared and I had the pleasure of, of taking courses from him at Princeton Seminary when he taught there. Doctor Alcantra and I go way back. He was a PhD student at Princeton Seminary when I was serving in

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administration there. And again, just meeting him, you think this is the nicest person I've ever met. And so to have someone who is so nice and friendly to be taught,

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talking about convictional preaching and divisive times, it seems like an oxymoron. How can I be nice and also convictional? But Jared makes it seem possible and imperative. So please join me in welcoming Dr.

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Alcantara to speak to us this afternoon. Good afternoon, everybody. Good to be with you. I'm going to go ahead and turn this down so it's not too loud.

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Thank you so much to Doctor Carolyn Hassel for this invitation and for everyone who's involved with the Lily Project for extending this invitation to me, for for offering your hospitality to me. Thank you so much for for coming today.

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My theme as you see here is convictional preaching in a divisive time. Now before we start talking about that, let me tell you a little bit about myself. So I'm originally from New Jersey, from from the central part of New Jersey. My father is from Honduras, from Central America and a little city in

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Honduras called La Seva, which is on the Caribbean coast. And one of the things that I tell people is that my father is a triplet and my mother is a twin. She's now passed away.

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But but we had triplets and twins. And so there are no, we didn't have any triplets or twins. But my father's name is Jose and it's two boys and a girl. So it's Jose, Maria and Jesus.

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So you have Las Agrada Familia, you have the Holy Family right there. So I'm very close to Jesus. I've got an uncle named Jesus and then my father's Jose and then Maria as well. So there's the three of them.

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And then my mother, she passed away a little, a little less than two years ago, but she grew up in Allentown, PA, and it's kind of Lehigh Valley Valley part. So my father immigrated from Alguidas to the United States and then ended up in

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New Jersey because he joined the military, was in the Air Force, met my mom, and that's how I grew up in New Jersey. So I grew up going to Latin America to see my family, my Honduran family, and then they would come and see me as well.

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And some of them had never seen snow. So that was amazing for them. And, and then I have lots of Honduran family in Los Angeles or even here in the Dallas, Dallas, Fort Worth area, part of Texas.

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So I've got sisters, I've got brothers, I've got family in Honduras. My parents used to live in New Jersey. Now they live with me. So my mother passed away a little less than two years ago.

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And then my father is 88 years old, still going strong and lives with us. So I was telling Doctor Helsel that my kids have learned all kinds of colourful language at the dinner table. They've learned some.

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They've heard some jokes that should have been retired about 30 years ago. But he benefits from them and they benefit from him. Just so you know a little bit more about my work. So I've served churches in different places, first originally in Illinois,

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served a church outside of Chicago, and then in Massachusetts when I was in seminary. If you've ever heard of Amherst, MA, where UMass is Amherst College, that's where my wife and I met First Baptist Church of Amherst and there were

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over 30 nationalities represented at that church. Was an amazing church and just so grateful for their ministry in my life and their impact in my life. Then served a church all the way out in Portland in Oregon.

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You remember I said my wife is from Oregon. So was out in that area of the country for several years. And then when I was doing my PhD, so when I was at PTS and got to meet Doctor Helsel was serving a church just right outside of Princeton Seminary in in

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a town called Ewing. So just a few towns over. So I've been serving churches different places. I have a very patient spouse because we lived in Oregon, Massachusetts,

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New Jersey, then Chicago, and now Waco, TX. Taught at Truitt Seminary for the last 7 1/2 years or so. As far as my work, I've been able to intersect with different traditions within Protestantism.

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What I'll tell people is that I am a bicultural, Latino ordained Baptist minister who studied black preaching at a mainline Presbyterian seminary. Let that sink in.

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Just think about that for a moment, but Doctor Helsel mentioned Cleo LaRue. Through Doctor Larue's influence, I was able to meet in person an amazing preacher by the name of Doctor Gardner C Taylor. If you haven't heard that name, that would encourage you to learn more

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about him and his ministry. That was called the Dean of the nation's black preachers, but really the Dean of preaching in so many ways in the 20th century. But it's not his name, is not as well known as it should be.

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But I got to meet him toward the end of his life and get to know him even at the very end of his life when he was in a convalescent home in Durham, NC. I got to spend time with him and his family, get to know his second wife, get to know his daughter, and then get to know people at the church

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that he used to serve called Concorde Baptist Church of Christ in Brooklyn, NY. So I did my dissertation on Gardner Taylor, ended up writing two books on him, and then a little later moved into some other work. Like for my intro to preaching class, I wanted to write a book that was focused

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on practice, that was technologically innovative in some way. So there was video and audio clips involved, and that was also intentionally collaborative and strategically diverse.

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So that's a bit of a mouthful, but it ended up being called The Practices of Christian Preaching. So one of the things that we're going to talk about today comes from out of that book.

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The book's called The Practices of Christian Preaching, and we'll focus more on the early chapters, especially the chapter on preaching convictionally. Remember, the title of this workshop is

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Convictional Preaching in a Divisive Time. But we'll also talk a little bit about preaching recognisably Christian sermons. All you need to do is read the news to see that there's some pseudo Christian sermons that are being preached right now that obviously are far removed from the

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heart of the Gospel. So, so you don't need me to convince you of that, but we'll have a chance to just reflect a little bit more on what it means to preach recognisably Christian sermons as

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well. Some of the things to know about me. So Doctor Helsel mentioned that I'm the director of the Kyle Lake Centre for Effective Preaching.

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So we convene various conferences and then I've also taught it true at seminary for 7 1/2 years. We have a PhD program as well. So I'm grateful to invest not only in masters level students,

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but also doctoral students. But if you remember, our theme is convictional preaching in a device of time. And I wanted to start off with a clip that I think really captures what what

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we're after, what we're, what we, what we mean by convictional preaching. And you can read Danielle Mcrae's work or you can read lots of other people's works on preaching that a sermon doesn't have to take place behind a pulpit on a Sunday morning for it to be sermonic.

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And God has a way of speaking through various channels and various people to communicate the power of of God's work in the world. So with this clip, here's the question that I want you to think about.

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And we'll have a chance to talk about it as a group rather than at your tables. But what do you learn about conviction when you listen to this clip? And they'll also be some, some visuals too, so you can read what's being said at the same time.

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OK, So what does this have to teach you about conviction? And then I'll, I'll turn it over to you. I have dedicated my life to this talk of the Arctic people.

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I have fought against white domination and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the idea of a democratic and free society in which all persons will live together in harm and with equal opportunities.

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It is an idea for which I hope to live for and to see realized. But my Lord, if it needs me, it is an idea for which I am prepared to die. So it gave you a little bit of historical background.

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The Livonia trial, 1964. This is the final thing that he said as he was standing in the docks at that trial. And if you study some of the history there,

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the he and some of the other people who were on trial, if convicted, could have been sentenced to death. So to give you a little context, he is was prepared if that's what was going to happen.

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He was prepared to die. Very, that's very concrete. That's not so abstract when you put it into context. So let me put it to you.

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What does this tell you about convictional preaching? What, what, what does it reveal to you about what, what that means in the world, not just then, but in the world today? Let me hear from you, your thoughts, raise your hands,

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and I'll bring you a microphone. I know we're a room of preachers, but for accessibility purposes, yes, we're using microphones and we're recording, so we need to make sure everyone can be heard.

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Thank you. What does it tell you? Go ahead. He's passionate about what he's saying.

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Yes, he he believes what he's saying. He understands what he's saying. He recognizes it and he has a relationship with it. And there's something connectional that he has with this belief that he's willing

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to die for. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Sometimes whether you look to the Church fathers or others,

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they'll talk about heat and light. And so you're talking about heat. There has to be heat. There has to be a sense of passion and commitment, a sense that we believe what,

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what, what, what we're called to do and who we're called to be and the cause for which we're willing to give our lives. Thanks. Thank you.

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That's a great insight. Yes, I think there it's on as a recovering people pleaser, I think one of the things that I hear in that is there's always a consequence or there can be a consequence.

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And as someone who likes things to be easy, sometimes when you speak what you're passionate about, you have to be prepared for it to not be easy. And that's tough.

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Yeah, that's right. That's right. And thanks for going first about being a recovering people, please. It reminded me of a pastor that I know who this was.

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I met this person years ago, but they used to throw this pastor used to throw up every Saturday night because of the kind of the anxiety around church the next day, in particular around preaching. And he was reading Colossians 3.

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And you know, since then you've been raised with Christ. Set your hearts on things above, not on earthly things where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. But as you get down to the third or fourth verse,

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when Christ who is your life appears, you also will appear with Him in glory. So he settled on that verse and he thought, wait a second, Christ is my life. And I wouldn't recommend this to everybody, but for him it worked. Every Sunday morning for about 6 months, right before he opened his mouth to

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preach, he would whisper a silent prayer to God. In the prayer was as he looked at the people, he said, you are not my life, you are not my life. That didn't make him a bad pastor.

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He was very good with people. And but it worked for him because of this very thing that you're talking about like so often. It's like, please like me, please like me, please like my sermon, please, like,

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please, like my leadership, please like what I have to say, Please don't send me an e-mail Monday morning, right. I don't know if Nelson Mandela would have, would have cared if he got an e-mail or a letter Monday morning.

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So there's something to be said for that, a sense of assurance and confidence and belief. That's not arrogant. That's that's very grounded in fact and that that's,

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that's willing to take that holy risk and to say nevertheless, Even so, I stand where I stand. I say what I say. I am who I am.

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I'm doing what I'm called to do. I think I saw some other hands. Yes. So what I heard was that his tone was very serious, very serious.

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Yes, his pacing was beautiful, just beautifully done. There was emotion there. He was committed to what he was saying, fully committed to what he was saying. And then I noticed that the visuals reflect what was being said.

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And I love that it, it, it's sort of emphasized. It emphasized what was being said. That's right. Yes, yes.

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And the conviction comes out of us, right? It comes out in our emotion. It comes out in our tone. It comes out in our, in our volume.

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Something to, to remember too, is that sometimes we think that passion equals volume. It doesn't have to. One of the professors I had in college, when he would get most passionate,

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he would get most quiet. But there's a certain intensity in his eyes and in his heart and a certain conviction that undergirded what he had to say. And it was almost like you had to lean in to hear what he had to say.

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But that passion was, there was a, there was a fire there that was irrespective of how loud or quiet he was being. You just felt it. You sensed it.

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You could feel it when he spoke. Yes. Anyone else, Rendella. Yes.

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I see your hand. Go ahead, Sir. I heard death. DEEP he was, we say.

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Usually when we say deep, we think the high thinker. But his total being was Christ and his mission. He knew who he was and he was his mission. Yes, yes, that's right.

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He lived the mission. It wasn't, it wasn't an idea. Yes, it was reality. That's right, reality.

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And that didn't, it didn't come and go. Yes, it it was his total being. Yes, it was his total. He lived and breathed.

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It was his blood. It was in his. It was in his blood. Yes, yes, yes, yeah.

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My mind goes so many different directions. But the importance of, of being deep in our conviction of having, having a deep sense of belief that guides action, that guides their being and acting in the world.

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There's a book actually called Deep Preaching. And in that book, J Kent Edwards says there's no excuses for shallow preaching. Shallow preaching comes from shallow people.

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We're called to be deep people who preach deep sermons that they're guided by deep conviction. Have you ever heard of Brevard Childs, the Old Testament scholar? So someone goes up to Doctor Childs in class one day.

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So teaching Old Testament is especially a Psalm scholar in particular, but whole work on canonical theology anyway. It's just this profound impact on Old Testament studies. But someone comes up to Doctor Childs one day, a student, and says, Doctor Childs,

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how do I do deep exegesis? And Child smiled and he said, become a deep person, right? They were looking for like, how do I crack the code? You know, how do I find the exact way to parse the

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Hebrew verb? And that's important. And Doctor Childs believed that was important, but more important than that, the call to be a deep person.

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You're going to do deep exegesis, be a deep person. And this sounds like a deep person to me. Someone who even as a young person, as a young adult, had decided that he knew he was, he believed what he believed the ideal

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was not just something abstract at 30, 000 feet, right? The ideal was something that was, that was guiding his very being and acting in the world. And he was willing to live for it and willing to die for it.

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One of my favorite stories. I feel emotional every time I think about it. But he's out there on Robben Island, and he's trying to figure out sort of how to remain resilient.

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And one of the ways that he had, he did this after he was sentenced to Robben Island, was all of the armed guards who were, you know, charged with keeping him and other political prisoners on Robben Island and doing what they needed to do.

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He treated all of them like he was already living in the New South Africa. Does that make sense? And so it's like he could see it and he started to act like it already happened. And that was what sustained him during all of those years of difficulty.

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And so you've got all of these themes coming up, even bubbling up even now as we think about someone like Mandela who's we've got a deep conviction, who's it's guided by passion. Now be careful.

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We don't want to always assume that passion is in concert with character. If you've ever heard the expression charisma without character is catastrophe. You have charisma and character coming together. You have a commitment to A cause greater than himself for which he is prepared to

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live and if necessary, prepared to die. And then, of course, you have courage. He's standing before my Lord the the judge, the tribunal, and saying to the powers here is what I am committed to and that I want you to be

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committed to. And regardless of your decision, I'm prepared to live and I'm prepared to die for that 'cause I think I saw another hand. Oh, oh, I'm sorry.

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Go ahead. Yes, Sir. What was most profound for me is the fact that when, when you think, think about not only Nelson Mandela, I think about Desmond Tutu,

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I think about so many people come to mind. You mentioned Doctor Taylor, also Teresa, but but ultimately you, you know your purpose. You walk in your purpose and come hell or how wide are you going to stand and be

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convicted? That's how you know Jesus. And 12 individuals were able to turn the world upside down. And 2000 years later, we're still talking about them.

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Some of them lost their head. Some of them were boiled in oil. And before Paul was converted, you know, he even had the nerve to hold somebody's cloak before they were died and stoned to death.

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But the reality is if if you can't stand or or be at a point of wanting to die for what you believe in like he mentioned, or be at a point to be completely sold out, you're wasting your time and everybody else's time that you consider to be your audience.

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Yes, that's a good word. It's always good to remember that for most of church history and even in most parts of the world today, or maybe I should say many parts instead of most parts of the world today, Christians have to face the fear of death

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for sharing their faith, for preaching, for giving, giving someone a Bible in many ways in North America, Europe, lots of other parts of the world. I mean, our greatest fear is the fear of

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embarrassment. So that's a pretty different kind of fear. But what happens when you're on the precipice of life and death? That's when you are summoned either to to courage or to cowardice.

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Did you hear courage? I heard courage. PT Foresight in his 1912 book Preaching in the Positive Mind is from the Lyman Beecher lectures.

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He claims in that book that the, the, the, the one indispensable quality required of Christian preaching is courage. Courage. Courage to stand up, courage to speak out.

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Courage to tell the truth, courage to insist, as the minor prophets declare, on being a prisoner of hope even in hopeless situations. But yeah, there's a there's a willingness to take

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that risk. Go ahead. Hi. What I heard.

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Well, let me just put it this way. I think we have the the luxury of, of looking at Nelson Mandela, seeing the totality of his story, but not under not appreciating the reality that in that moment he was doing what we call in, in my tradition,

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preaching his farewell. So he there was a different gravitas to his voice to to his understanding it. It's not a light thing for him because, as you said, he had no appreciation of whether or not the judge was going to commute his

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sentence or commute it from death to life. So I believe that every time we stand behind the sacred desk, there ought to be some level of preaching your farewell. And if you don't make the people mad as well as the devil mad,

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maybe you didn't do it right. Right, Right. And I mean, this is, you know, Nelson Mandela's living in. What is it, Second Timothy?

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4I fought the good fight. I finished the race. They kept the faith. One of the only reasons they weren't sentenced to death.

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It was like a geopolitical chess match going on at the time. And if the tribunal and if the judge had sentenced them to death, then the United Nations would basically kind of put an embargo on South Africa and block various forms of aid and so on and so forth.

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And so it wasn't because the judge was pricked by his own conscience, it was because of all of the pressure that other nations were putting on them. So he is prepared to die. He's prepared to lay down his life.

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And so this is an abstract. And you're right, we have the advantage of looking back and seeing someone who through all of those years on Robben Island, then, you know, then became the president of the New South Africa and so on and so forth.

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But none of that's happened yet. When you hear that clip, absolutely. I see some more hands and we'll keep going. But so one of the things I've, I've learned is there's a difference

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between being committed and a conviction. So when you're committed to easily, you're easy to walk past it. When you get up against the wall to get up, it's as easy to get away from it. But a conviction is something as you heard Nelson Mandela,

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it's quiet and their strength in your in your conviction, even to that point to where you know that you're going to be silenced. You still going to do it anyway. Some years ago I read this book, Fox's Martyrs, and it's a tremendous book.

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If you haven't read, it's a it's one of those books that tell you about people that have been martyred over the years. You had said earlier how here in the United States and North America that you're really not challenged.

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You're not the conviction. How, how, how true to your conviction are you when somebody stands in front of you and you know, this could be it. So that's yes, yes, it's an amazing sermon.

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It's it's on YouTube, but it, but Doctor King preached it in 1966 is called. But if not, and it's a story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. And there's a section in that sermon where he says, you know, we're called to,

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to build a, a beloved community, called to, to pursue a temple of peace. But even if God does not, even if God tarries, nevertheless we're going to trust God. There's a line in that sermon where he says, even if it's just you,

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you have an advantage because God is with you. It's two against one. So anyway, commitment that springs from conviction is so important.

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Some of us are old enough to remember Martina Navratilova the, the tennis player. And she, she was talking about being professional tennis player and she said you can't just be involved in tennis,

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you have to be committed to tennis. And the, and the, the interviewer said, well, what, what's the difference? And she said the difference between involvement in tennis and commitment in tennis is like the difference between bacon and eggs.

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She said the chicken is involved or the pig is committed, right. That's a big difference. Pig is committed. So difference between ham and eggs or bacon and eggs.

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I think we have one more and then we'll keep going because otherwise we'll talk about Nelson Mandela. The whole session I was I was struck by three major words. Dedicated.

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Ford cherished. Yes. Giving him the capacity to speak truth to power. Yeah.

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Say those words one more time. Just so you can say Dedicated. Dedicated thought and cherished. That's right.

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Dedicated thought. Cherished. That's right. Did you have your hand up?

00:29:33.840 - 00:29:38.160

I didn't want to stop you if you had your hand up. No. OK. I just want to make sure.

00:29:38.560 - 00:29:57.260

Well, there's some themes that we're coming up with even at the very beginning. Boldness, courage, commitment, a fight within us, a fire within us, heat and light, a consistency, you know, that runs through our character to our

00:29:57.260 - 00:30:14.810

speaking and our being and our doing in the world. So convictional preaching. And here is the person who I thought of immediately and what he has to say. This is the very last thing he has to say as he's in the docks preparing perhaps,

00:30:14.810 - 00:30:35.000

maybe even probably to be sentenced to death. All right, let's keep the wheels turning and let me go ahead and move on to another one. And we won't spend as much time on this one and turn the volume down for this one.

00:30:36.280 - 00:30:41.880

Now, let's look at conviction through a number of different angles. That's what I want to do. So here's angle 1.

00:30:41.880 - 00:30:55.480

And I want to ask you what this tells you about conviction. Perhaps something slightly different than what you heard in the last audio clip from Mandela. But just to make sure the volume works correctly, I'm going to fix it first.

00:30:56.960 - 00:31:15.800

Oh, before we get there, here's how I define conviction. In my book, The Practices of Christian Preaching. There's that word commitment, A commitment to A cause greater than oneself for the sake of a mission greater than one's life.

00:31:16.720 - 00:31:27.690

And I give the example of the Freedom Riders. Everyone know who the Freedom Riders were who insisted on integrating the buses throughout the South. But there's a story, a powerful story about one of the Freedom

00:31:27.690 - 00:31:42.350

Riders who gets thrown in into prison. And they would sing freedom songs, right? They would sing We shall overcome right there in the jail. And so the the guards wanted to kind of break their will of getting tired of all

00:31:42.350 - 00:31:53.520

the singing. And so they took away their mattresses. But one of them was, was a preacher, the Baptist preacher. And here's what he said to the guards.

00:31:53.520 - 00:32:06.240

He said, you can have my mattress, but you cannot have my soul. So here it is, right? Commitment to A cause greater than oneself for the sake of a mission greater than one's life.

00:32:07.720 - 00:32:17.120

So that's one of the themes that comes out in the practices of Christian preaching. And that's how I define conviction. And there's the there's the book.

00:32:17.120 - 00:32:35.200

So this is chapter 2, just so you're aware of it. And before I get to the next clip, here's how it connects to the to the larger whole. I talk about 5 different practices of Christian preaching guided by preaching

00:32:35.200 - 00:32:49.870

recognisably, undeniably Christian sermons. So we're going to talk mainly about conviction, and we're going to talk about the centre of the wheel today. But there's some other practices that I encourage every preacher to cultivate

00:32:49.870 - 00:33:02.640

over time under the larger rubric of something called deliberate practice. Kate Andrews Ericsson has done a lot of really interesting work on deliberate practice. He was known as an expert on experts.

00:33:02.640 - 00:33:17.040

So he studied chess masters, he studied violinists, ballet dancers, elite athletes. And here's what he discovered, that there's a difference between practice and deliberate practice.

00:33:17.920 - 00:33:29.420

Malcolm Gladwell, if you've ever heard of him, he thought he understood Ericsson's work, but he misunderstood it. Gladwell came up with his 10, 000 hour rule that if you do something for 10,000 hours, anything, then you could eventually become an

00:33:29.420 - 00:33:37.170

expert at it. And Ericsson said, no, you don't understand me at all. Actually. If you do something wrongly for 10, 000 hours,

00:33:37.170 - 00:33:58.820

then you won't really become as good in that of an expert as you could have been. Because as he's studying these violinists, all of whom are at the elite of the elite at a violin school in in Berlin, he's trying to ask the question, well, what's the difference between those top performers at the school and everybody

00:33:58.820 - 00:34:11.120

else? And his answer was deliberate practice. And he said deliberate practice was characterized by 4 different commitments. The first commitment he called concrete goals.

00:34:11.280 - 00:34:25.440

So these are goals that are actionable, attainable, that are kind of recognizable achievable. So just in general, when we think about our preaching, what are concrete goals that we could set that would help us to get better?

00:34:25.600 - 00:34:38.560

And it might even be just be 1% better every week. But if you get 1% better every week, then you actually accomplish a lot of things by the end of the year. So concrete goals, constructive feedback.

00:34:38.560 - 00:34:50.000

So there there need to be feedback loops in which we have other people speaking into our preaching. And it doesn't just apply to preaching, it applies to other areas of our lives as well, our own spiritual formation.

00:34:50.480 - 00:35:05.920

So getting feedback from others in terms of how we're doing, how we're progressing, if we're getting better, if we're moving in the right direction. So you've got concrete goals, you've got constructive feedback. The third one is called focused attention.

00:35:06.440 - 00:35:21.230

Focused attention, and what that means is a learning to pay attention to ourselves doing the thing we're trying to get better at. So paying attention to what we're doing while we're doing it. If you've ever talked with people in performance studies,

00:35:21.230 - 00:35:41.440

whether that's a ballet or other forms of dance, it could be sports as well. It's called seeing yourself in C2 to see yourself seeing. So things start to slow down enough where you can actually learn from your body, learn from your voice, learn from what's happening in the actual

00:35:41.440 - 00:35:50.540

moment. So how does this apply to preaching? Learning to see ourselves, seeing when we preach. And I would add, Ericsson wasn't really interested in

00:35:50.540 - 00:36:06.880

talking about spiritual things, but I would add learning to become prayerful while we preach so that we can actually not only pray that God would show up while we're talking, but also pray for our people while we're talking and pray and be in communion with God during the sermon.

00:36:08.040 - 00:36:21.080

OK, so you've got concrete goals, you've got constructive feedback, you've got focused attention. And the final one is a willingness to take risks. We were talking about Doctor LaRue earlier.

00:36:21.080 - 00:36:34.360

He liked to say and still likes to say, something in US must die in order for us to grow. So whether it's preaching or whether it's pastoral leadership or whether it's your own spiritual formation, you walk with God.

00:36:34.360 - 00:36:53.290

What needs to die in order to grow. So a willingness to take risks is to push ourselves past our own complacency. So that's why Ericsson pushed back against Gladwell, right? He said you could actually be a doctor for 20 years and be a worse doctor than

00:36:53.290 - 00:37:08.020

you were at 10. You could be a driver for 20 years and a worse driver than you were at 10. Why? Because after you do something long enough, he calls it,

00:37:08.020 - 00:37:26.320

a level of automaticity sets in so that you actually have diminished returns instead. So here's why I find this especially hopeful. When I was a young preacher, sometimes people would say to me, well,

00:37:26.320 - 00:37:43.320

you know, you, you need to, you need to log some more time. You need, you know, So sometimes it was a little bit of a condescending experience that I would have when I would interact with older pastors and preachers, but and congregants.

00:37:43.400 - 00:37:53.650

That's right. That's right. Hypothetically, hypothetically, that's right. But now that I'm older as well, I can also see Ericsson's point that a

00:37:53.650 - 00:38:08.060

level of automaticity can set in where you're no longer pushing yourself to get better. So here's why I find it hopeful. If you haven't preached very much, it doesn't mean that you can't,

00:38:08.060 - 00:38:22.310

according to Ericsson. And if you've preached a long time, it doesn't mean that you can. So it's a word of warning and a word of hope. Now, the final umbrella for all of these 4

00:38:22.310 - 00:38:34.170

commitments is coaching. And so there's deliberate practice characterized by 4 commitments. And then coaching is that broader umbrella when someone has a coach. And that that could doesn't have to be one person,

00:38:34.170 - 00:38:48.320

it could be more than one person in their lives in order to help them grow in a particular way in a particular area. So I wanted to at least draw your attention to Ericsson and his work and why I called it the practices of Christian preaching.

00:38:48.320 - 00:38:59.320

So I talk about these buckets of categories, if you will, as practices that we can cultivate over time. So we can become more convictional over time, we can become better at clarity over time.

00:38:59.640 - 00:39:12.820

We can become better at contextualisation over time. I mentioned conviction. Concreteness is the bucket where we put illustrations and application, where we talk about moving down from 30, 000 feet to sea level right to the

00:39:12.820 - 00:39:25.150

neighborhoods where people live, so we can become more appropriately and critically contextual over time. When we think about preaching, not necessarily just timeless sermons, but timely sermons, Nora Tisdale would say,

00:39:25.150 - 00:39:38.000

not just faithful to the gospel, but also fitting to the context in which we find ourselves. And so these are practices we cultivate over time with the recognisably Christian sermons being at the centre.

00:39:38.760 - 00:39:57.280

But I want to focus in particular on being convictional and divisive time. And then I'll say something toward the end about Christian sermons. So all of that is a way to introduce our next clip. I want to hear from you again what you think this tells you about conviction.

00:40:01.760 - 00:40:24.360

We are very familiar with this text. It is our Lord's inaugural sermon as He begins His earthly ministry. There had been some preliminary acts of ministry, but it is here that Jesus formally announces His mission.

00:40:26.200 - 00:40:57.720

The words of his announcement have combined a Christian manifesto, a summary assertion of the Christian witness. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because the Lord has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.

00:40:59.240 - 00:41:26.160

The Lord has sent me to proclaim release to the captives, the recovery of sight to the blind, to let those who are oppressed go free, and to declare that I am not. Is God's time to do it.

00:41:28.280 - 00:41:51.720

What a ministry, what a mission, what a message. That land, as well as this land, cries out for good news to the poor, deliveries to captives, shake for the blind, freedom for the oppressed.

00:41:53.440 - 00:42:16.480

This is indeed the greatest sermon ever preached, the greatest shaman bee can ever preach. Indeed is what we do in the broken is not good news to the poor deliverance to the captives, sights to the blind.

00:42:17.480 - 00:42:41.160

Healings are broken. Freedom for the oppressed. It may be sweet, it may be High Court, it may even be deep, but it ain't preaching.

00:42:41.160 - 00:42:47.480

All right. How many have heard of Prathia Hall? All right, if you haven't, please get to know her story. Get to know her name.

00:42:48.000 - 00:43:01.380

That picture of her is from during the Civil Rights movement. This is the pictures from the early 60s. It's a church in Tuscaloosa, AL. I've had a chance to visit that church and it's just you can see the background

00:43:01.380 - 00:43:15.160

and just imagine her there. This sermon, though, was preached in 1992. So what's old is new, and what was timely then is timely in 1992 and is certainly timely now.

00:43:17.520 - 00:43:36.440

Doctor King used to say that he didn't like to preach after pray, Thea Hall preached. And so if he said that, then that must say something about her. One time she was in a prayer meeting and she was praying out loud about this dream

00:43:36.440 - 00:43:45.280

that she had, a dream that that was God's dream for America. And you know who's at that meeting? Doctor King.

00:43:45.360 - 00:43:56.720

He's like, I kind of like that language. The dream, God's dream for America. So back-to-back to the question, what does this tell you about conviction? Because it's slightly different.

00:43:56.720 - 00:44:06.520

It's a different angle, and it's using more theological language. I mean, there was a lot of theology that was undergirding what Mandela had to say. But she's getting more explicit.

00:44:06.760 - 00:44:17.360

She's quoting from Jesus. Sermon on the Mount, or excuse me, the first sermon in Nazareth. Excuse me, Luke 4 And the sermon is called Between the Wilderness and the Cliff.

00:44:17.840 - 00:44:31.400

And she, she argues in that sermon that that's where ministry happens, between the wilderness and a Cliff. You remember what happens after that sermon? They start driving him over to the Cliff, trying to push him off.

00:44:32.280 - 00:44:44.740

Not because he quoted from Isaiah 61. You remember why they wanted to. You started talking about naming the Syrian and started talking about the widow of Zarephath and about how no prophet is welcomed in his hometown and

00:44:44.740 - 00:44:59.240

about how God is for them and not just for us and God's for everyone. So tell me what this says to you about conviction, what she's saying here, that that helps us think together about convictional preaching in a device of time.

00:44:59.280 - 00:45:12.370

So what did you hear? Can I, can I say something for that, please? Of course, what I, what I noticed and saw was very much. I mean, you've already kind of pointed out,

00:45:12.370 - 00:45:27.570

but the theological tie, the connection back to Scripture, where I would say it's concrete. And having that as she preached it with that conviction because it was tied to something which was tied to her beliefs, which made that conviction even more

00:45:27.570 - 00:45:37.400

strong in her words and got her more powerful because there was a basis and she built up from that. Yes, yes. It made me think of the final line, Love.

00:45:37.400 - 00:45:53.800

So from the hymn love. So amazing, so divine demands my soul, my life, my all. So there's a, there's a, a connection that she has with the God of the gospel that's driving this, right.

00:45:54.800 - 00:46:05.870

And, and, and it's rich in this. It does make it concrete. It's it's theologically informed, theologically driven, and it completely frames and shapes how she understands what life is about and

00:46:05.870 - 00:46:13.560

what her life in particular is about and what ministry is about. Yes. OK, others, it takes action. Oh, hold on one second.

00:46:13.560 - 00:46:26.990

We'll get you, get you a mic so that they can hear you for the streaming. It takes action. OK, She she's saying, at least what I heard is that it's going

00:46:26.990 - 00:46:41.360

to take work and the work is not easy, but you have to be devoted to it. Yes, that's right. Yeah, it's going to take work. There has to be devotion to it.

00:46:41.360 - 00:46:55.200

There has to be a sense that even though the task is difficult, nevertheless the work is the work is worth the time and the energy and the effort. It's not, it's not just the words and the, the feeling or the,

00:46:55.200 - 00:47:11.240

the thought behind the words or the the grounding behind the words. It's also going to be an action. There has to be some action that makes this the reality. Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

00:47:11.240 - 00:47:14.320

Yes. And right next to you. Yes. OK.

00:47:15.240 - 00:47:24.360

It's not expository writing. Say more about that. Go ahead. Well, she uses short, brief, quick phrases.

00:47:24.360 - 00:47:40.720

It's all undergirded with scripture and theology, but it's not expository preaching. She's just she's, she's using these very short, quick burst of energy and she's saying the same thing in different ways.

00:47:40.720 - 00:47:51.960

She's lifting up the different thoughts of the the passage and she's pushing each one forward. It's a very different technique than a pository preach. Right, right.

00:47:51.960 - 00:47:58.930

Absolutely. Yes, yes. There's a much more of a, a poetic frame. There's much it's more of a a rhetorical frame,

00:47:58.930 - 00:48:09.120

but both the poetic and rhetorical frames are undergirded by a deep theology that is shaping how she understands Jesus ministry. And then she closes. This is just the introduction.

00:48:09.120 - 00:48:22.960

So she's closing her introduction with, and this is what preaching is and what preaching is about. She's quoting basically directly from the Isaiah text, which Jesus is quoting from in order to show, OK, let's let's get real clear,

00:48:22.960 - 00:48:35.360

just like Jesus was on what Our Calling is and on what preaching is. OK, we'll go next to you. Yeah, go ahead. In in the Hebrew text, parallelism is a form that's used.

00:48:36.080 - 00:48:47.880

It's a poetic form used to present Scripture. And that poetic form allows us to hear the words, the language in a different way. And she's doing some of that, I think.

00:48:48.960 - 00:48:51.640

Yes. Thank you. OK, go ahead. What else does it tell you?

00:48:52.440 - 00:49:10.160

I think that to me it's it's remarkable that she's being very practical in, in a time in which quite similar to what we are experiencing today. It's kind of blurry what it means to follow Jesus and what it means to to be a disciple of Jesus.

00:49:10.160 - 00:49:33.560

And she's bringing the people back to the Scripture to not only the New Testament, but the Old Testament to something that is a messianic passage about what is the whole purpose of Jesus and challenging us to to be concrete and practical and convictional about how we live our faith.

00:49:34.000 - 00:49:54.080

So I think that right now we are seeing that too, right? It's the definition of being a disciple of Jesus. It's it's so different now depending on with who's saying that, right? But she's bringing people back to the Scripture to say something.

00:49:54.360 - 00:50:07.120

This is this is it, this is it. To be a follower of Christ means to preach the good news to the poor, to bring freedom to the oppressed, to bring sight to the blind. This is what we are called to do.

00:50:07.360 - 00:50:16.880

Yes, yes, that's a, that's a good word. It made me think of part way through the Gospel of Matthew. John, John the Baptist gets thrown into prison for criticizing Herod, right?

00:50:18.080 - 00:50:28.200

And you may remember this scene. I think it's Matthew 11. He sends his disciples to Jesus and they come with a question. Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?

00:50:29.080 - 00:50:37.000

Right. And what's the answer? Go back and tell John the blind see the deaf here. The dead are raised.

00:50:37.000 - 00:50:51.320

Good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is anyone who does not fall away on account of me. And so there's this a commitment, yes, to to proclaiming the good news, but a commitment that is deeply rooted in Isaiah 61 that he launches in, in Luke 4.

00:50:51.680 - 00:51:07.240

But part of what, what Paradia Hall is trying to say is that's what ministry is. Ministry is between the wilderness and a Cliff. And it's a commitment to a a preaching that is in concert with the call of

00:51:07.240 - 00:51:15.880

Isaiah 61 on Jesus life and on our lives as well. Think about even just the first line. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. And what's the next phrase?

00:51:15.880 - 00:51:31.840

What's a verb to proclaim to announce good news? Yes, I I'd like to suggest I do think she was doing a social cultural expository sermon by identifying herself with Jesus and that parallelism in light of the patriarchal landscape of preaching.

00:51:32.320 - 00:51:51.260

So to use the personal pronouns of I with Jesus as a black female in a pulpit was expository and I think that when she conviction was embodied. So I think that the actual embodiment, just her being in a pulpit in 1992 as a black female, it was already self prophetic and

00:51:51.260 - 00:52:02.280

expository in nature. So I think that the rhetorical devices are for using parallelism and then personal pronouns while proclaiming this said gospel that Jesus said. Yes was the conviction of the preaching that she was telling.

00:52:02.280 - 00:52:07.680

All of us are a part of this and no one is left out of proclaiming God's good news. That's a good word. Absolutely yes.

00:52:07.680 - 00:52:16.040

It's 1992. If anyone knows what it's like to preach and to do ministry between wilderness and a Cliff, it's Prathial Hall. She's not welcome.

00:52:16.040 - 00:52:29.240

And plenty of black church pulpits and plenty of other pulpits as well. But by virtue of being a woman and, and nevertheless, she's juxtaposing even the pronouns to say this ministry that Jesus did is ministry that I do, that ministry that all of us,

00:52:29.240 - 00:52:36.920

it's ministry that all of us are called to do. So she's being prophetic not just to what she's saying, but what she's doing as she says it. Absolutely.

00:52:37.320 - 00:52:51.720

OK, let me move on to the next one. And I want to keep the conversation going and I'm going to have to fix the volume. And we'll just you ever have to pray for the technology? I pray I speak a word over the technology.

00:52:51.720 - 00:53:21.230

I speak it all right. Lo quisiera acerunja ma miento de manera especial a Los hombre de le gercito ien concreto a Las bases de la Guardia Nacional de la policia de Los cuartelles hermanos song de nuestro mismo Pueblo matanasus mismo hermanos campesinos yante

00:53:21.230 - 00:54:08.040

una orden de matar que de UN hombre de de prevales ER la Ley de dios que de no matar. Ningun soltado esta obligado au be deseruna ordem Contra la le terios una le ingmoral Nadia tiene que compiler la Y estiempo de que recuperience SU

00:54:08.040 - 00:55:01.250

conciencia icchio vedes canante SU conciencia que la orden del pecado la iglesia de fencora de la derechos de dios de la le de dios de la dignidadu mana de la persona no puede que darce cayada ante tanta abominacion queremos que El gobierno tome en serio que de nada sierbe la reformas sivan tenidas contantas angre

00:55:01.250 - 00:55:43.770

enombre de dios pues enombre este sufrido Pueblo cuyos lamento subenas Tel cielo cada di amas tumultuosos les suplico les ruego les ordeno enombre de dios sesse la de crecion. Many of you know this name, Oscar Romero, El Salvador, when he,

00:55:43.770 - 00:56:04.880

shortly after this sermon, when he was delivering mass, soldiers came into the church, was gunned down, killed him. In his book, The Violence of Love, he says that a gospel that does not address the sin of the society.

00:56:04.880 - 00:56:19.160

What kind of gospel is that? We need to know the bad news to get to the good news, right? So in sin is not just individualistic, it's also societal, it's communal, it's systemic, structural.

00:56:20.040 - 00:56:33.840

He's trying to go after those things as he's closing this sermon, which ends up being his final sermon. What does this tell you about convictional preaching in a divisive time? Hear from you.

00:56:33.840 - 00:56:48.000

What does it tell you That might be either part of the themes that we've discussed and because there's there's there's connections even to the first clip we heard from Mandela. But what sorts of things has revealed to you about convictional preaching?

00:56:48.200 - 00:57:03.680

Yes, I am really struck by the sort of like actionable concrete part of this. I've and I've also reminded of a lot of efforts right now to have little resource cards for law enforcement officers to say, hey,

00:57:03.680 - 00:57:18.920

these are your rights if you are going to resist, you know, unlawful orders or immoral orders. Like he's, you know, Doctor Romero is very explicit about this is what the gospel calls you to do tomorrow, right now.

00:57:19.040 - 00:57:29.720

Yeah, Yes, yes. Sally Brown wrote a great book called Sunday's Preaching a Sunday's Sermon in Monday's World. He's very clear about what needs to happen on Monday, right?

00:57:30.360 - 00:57:39.290

That you are not obligated to, to, to follow an immoral or an unjust law. You are not. In fact, you are. You are called to stand up, you're called to speak out,

00:57:39.290 - 00:57:49.280

you're called to, to resist if that is what is necessary. So it's very clear there's not ambiguous about how to apply the gospel in their lives on Monday. Yes, that's a good word.

00:57:49.440 - 00:58:03.240

OK, go ahead. When he says that the cries of the people are being loud are being heard by heaven louder everyday. You have this deep sense that he's been in the grief like he he is putting his we

00:58:03.240 - 00:58:22.240

know he's putting his life on the line because he is sad with us that there is so much oppression absolutely like his grief is compelling his conviction. Absolutely yes, yes, it's it's driving this courage right. Something has to drive it this sense that he's part of something much bigger than

00:58:22.240 - 00:58:36.040

himself. Of course he knows that he's called to be a servant of God as the Archbishop. But there's a line in there. The church cannot remain silent before so much abomination, right?

00:58:36.840 - 00:58:52.410

And perhaps you feel this way in ministry, like with the church, it's like, I love you, but you drive me crazy, right? I love, but there's a lot, there's a love even for the the reputation of God's reputation and the reputation of the church in the world

00:58:52.410 - 00:59:00.640

that the church cannot be muted and silenced and just allow these things to continue. What's the church for? What's preaching for?

00:59:00.840 - 00:59:15.160

What's ministry for? But to but to speak God's truth and God's hope in the world. Maybe you've heard of the name Walter Brugman. When I was first on the campus at Truitt Seminary, Bailey University, Dr.

00:59:15.160 - 00:59:30.400

Brueggemann was preaching about or he was doing a lecture on the preaching of the Hebrew prophets. It was for the symposiums 2017. And he stands up and says the Hebrew prophets declared through their preaching

00:59:30.400 - 00:59:43.920

a ministry of truth telling and hope bringing. The problem is the people didn't want either of those things. They didn't want truth telling, right? Because who wants to be told the truth to themselves about themselves?

00:59:44.480 - 00:59:55.160

That you need to be that you need to repent, right? That you that you have become stiff necked or that you are bowing down before idols and you will go into exile if you continue, right? So that's the truth telling.

00:59:55.160 - 01:00:12.520

But the hope bringing they no longer believed it was realistic. Because if you're in Babylon and and you're told that someday you will return, it's like, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. Nevertheless, prisoners of hope right.

01:00:14.160 - 01:00:22.920

So there's this there's this juxtaposition too. There's an insistence on truth telling. But if you listen to the whole sermon too, there's there's a there's an imprisonment to hope in all of the best ways.

01:00:23.400 - 01:00:36.400

And that he believes that this is possible if God's people band together and stand up and they insist on telling the truth in their society and exposing the sin of the society for what it is. I think I saw a hand or a remote yes.

01:00:36.640 - 01:00:55.000

Hi everybody. I, you know, as I, as I thought about and prayed about Father Romero over the years, the the one of the things I thought of today is that he was preaching to liberate the soldiers too.

01:00:55.520 - 01:01:07.210

In fact, he was the one telling the soldiers, this is the thing to do. This is the don't obey an unjust order, right? So I gave a sermon on on the Good Samaritan Sunday for us and,

01:01:07.210 - 01:01:20.000

and I had had about two hours of sleep, struggled, struggled. And, and I think it was because I had two hours of sleep that I just, it just went. And, and so reminding everybody that the

01:01:20.000 - 01:01:37.130

people who are being rounded up and and hauled off in this gigantic dragnet of immigration, these are our these are our brothers and sisters, the people we have gone to school with, the people we have lived with, the people we have loved their family

01:01:37.130 - 01:01:44.400

members, so forth and so on. And I, and then it was a part of that. I said, I mentioned that you may have to break local laws.

01:01:44.960 - 01:01:59.680

And you can imagine, as I preached to the Republican Party that day, because let's face it, that's who I preach to for the most part. You know, they were, there was a lot of upset, like, are you telling us to disobey the law?

01:01:59.760 - 01:02:14.760

I said, and my answer was no, my, I'm telling you to disobey. I'm telling you to obey the law of God. So I say all that because I, you know, I really, I really spent about 72 hours just aching over that sermon.

01:02:15.120 - 01:02:28.290

And, and I thought, you know, who might have been offended by that otherwise? And I thought the, the cop in my congregation, the cop. So I called him up and I said, you know, Arnold,

01:02:28.290 - 01:02:41.440

I'm sorry if this sermon hit you in a way that hurt or made you feel like I don't value you. And he said, stop, turn around 180°. Go in a different direction, pastor, because there are laws that you follow,

01:02:41.440 - 01:02:55.480

because it's the law and there are laws that you follow because you get to sleep at night. And so, you know, it's these, these are impressive times for us. And, and I'm no, I'm no courageous man.

01:02:55.480 - 01:03:10.080

I want you to know that I'm scared to death every day of preaching the gospel. And it's people like this, though, my heroes, the, the martyrs that keep me in check and keep me moving. So thanks for calling up Bishop Romero.

01:03:10.200 - 01:03:22.560

Yeah. And thanks for bringing up the, the call to the soldiers as well. I mean, what happened recently when a, a bunch of congressmen told soldiers that they didn't have to obey unjust orders that were against the will of God, right?

01:03:22.560 - 01:03:32.920

They, they got everything pulled out from under them and so on. I'm, I'm glad you brought glad you brought up the soldiers for another reason, though.

01:03:34.040 - 01:03:54.880

There's this insistence that Christ's arms are open wide enough for them. And one of the things that can happen in a polarized and fractured society, it's it can turn into the type of rhetoric and the type of being and acting in the world in which we say you are either with me or you are evil.

01:03:58.240 - 01:04:15.760

For Romero, it's Will you all be on God's side, you 2 soldiers, right? Will you, will you be on God's side as well? Because you know that what you're doing is wrong.

01:04:15.960 - 01:04:29.440

You know that what you're doing is against the plans and purposes and the will of, of God. It's going to take courage from you to, to stop this endless cycle. Yes, I heard love.

01:04:30.120 - 01:04:50.200

Love is an action word. And what I heard him saying was he loved the gospel most of all the law. Love transcends the gospel, Love transcends the law, the love of Christ.

01:04:50.320 - 01:05:09.240

That's the bottom line. If we're not totally sold out to Christ's love, Christian Christ's love, we're we're just kind of like empty symbols. And I say this, I don't want any embarrassing.

01:05:09.800 - 01:05:24.200

My friend Doctor Reese came to us, I guess two or three years ago. But before he got there, I was walking around the church prophesying just. And everybody said, well, how do you know?

01:05:25.120 - 01:05:30.680

And I said, what's his name? I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. But the Lord told me.

01:05:31.640 - 01:05:51.240

And when he got there, he scared me. And the reason that he scared me and still scares me, his bottom line is I love the law. And I was like, OK, I've heard that from, you know, I'm a preacher.

01:05:51.240 - 01:06:06.600

You're a preacher. I love the law. When he says it, man, it, it, it curses you is I mean, it's no doubt everything that's going on.

01:06:07.920 - 01:06:24.880

I look my walk, my talk, everything about him, the way he treats his family, the way he treats you. Every idea is based on the love of the Lord, which transcends the law and the the law can only kill you.

01:06:24.880 - 01:06:42.760

It doesn't it doesn't help you. There's the big difference between Old and New Testament. We live under grace, you know, and since we do live under grace, we should be, I think, more courageous with the word,

01:06:42.760 - 01:06:53.600

the word we, we know that God will forgive us, but when we know better, we should live better. That's a good word. Yes.

01:06:53.600 - 01:07:07.280

Agustin called it the love hermeneutic. That wasn't that wasn't his phrase exactly, but he spoke of a love, a law of love that supersedes even what we believe to be our natural instincts to interpret the world or interpret a text a particular way.

01:07:08.920 - 01:07:27.120

I'm glad you said it as well too, because as I connected to to to our brothers comment about the soldiers, there is an important leap that that we all need to make in our task as preachers and as Christian leaders, which is an insistence on humanizing all.

01:07:29.040 - 01:07:40.880

And that might be counter intuitive, especially because there are those who have things to say where we go. I can't believe that that person's a human and said that because they must not care about other humans because they said that or did that.

01:07:42.000 - 01:07:55.400

But yesterday I was having lunch with Carolyn Anne Knight, who's an amazing preacher evangelist and is doing a seminary scholar in residence with us at Baylor this semester. But she was quoting from a poet.

01:07:55.400 - 01:08:08.550

The poet's name escapes me, but the poet says she's a well known poet today and it's just escaping me. It'll come to me when it's too late. But the poet said that we must read Toni Morrison every 10 years in order to

01:08:08.550 - 01:08:24.300

recover our humanity. Now, what was she saying? She was saying there's something about how Morrison writes that reveals just all of the fragility and all of the beauty, not the brokenness and all of the power

01:08:24.300 - 01:08:34.280

of being human. But I think, you know, we're about a decade into this crazy storm that we're in. I think it's been it's been about a decade of this.

01:08:34.640 - 01:08:49.960

So maybe she was on to something. Maybe maybe the call to to insist on courageous love even now could, could change things. Sanchez, that's right.

01:08:49.960 - 01:08:53.360

Sanchez, the poet. Sanchez, that's right. OK, one more. And.

01:08:53.440 - 01:09:08.980

Oh sorry I see a mic where you pointed. There you are. Go ahead. So since we I I wanted to say based on the brothers conversation about

01:09:08.980 - 01:09:38.440

Archbishop Romero's pre sermon being specifically to the soldiers. I wanted to assure you that the soldiers here, the sermons, I'm a retired Army chaplain, OK, so I'm the preacher. The soldiers are having these conversations.

01:09:40.280 - 01:10:05.040

I often share with folk that just like, I think there's some Methodists in here, just like the, the pastor is not the, is it the the pastor is only the symbolic head of the congregation. We have a symbolic head of an entire organization.

01:10:05.680 - 01:10:24.040

The organization still has conversations. Soldiers are constantly reminded that they do not follow orders that are illegal, immoral, or unethical. And that's a choice and a check you have to make within yourself.

01:10:24.640 - 01:10:37.800

And I, as a chaplain, I'm the person who sits with them and says, how is your conscience dealing with this? And if it's not dealing, that's a conversation we need to have with leadership.

01:10:38.440 - 01:10:55.350

And there are some places where leaders are saying, listen up. We we, we aren't going to be able to do that. And I'm sure that if you are in tune, you are recognizing that some people are saying raising their hand and say they doing the church finger and saying I'm a

01:10:55.350 - 01:11:15.510

leave the build. And those are the people who are saying based on so my job is to provide I am the personal or I was the personal advisor for my commander. I advise the commander on all things religious, spiritual,

01:11:15.510 - 01:11:29.720

moral and and ethical. So if there is a situation within the formation, I get to say to the leader or the leader says to me, hey chap, I got a problem. Let's sit down and hash this out.

01:11:30.760 - 01:11:49.640

But conversations are being had. Please do not assume that the soldiers, the sailors, Marines, airmen and Space Force people are not having these conversations because they are wrestling with the same thing that you are wrestling with.

01:11:50.080 - 01:12:04.480

And they're waiting to hear a word from you so that they can then decide. Can I stand for right? But if the preacher isn't telling me anything, right? What?

01:12:04.480 - 01:12:08.520

What, what? Where's the conviction coming from? So thank you. I appreciate it.

01:12:08.520 - 01:12:17.800

I just want to offer y'all that did you just sleep, sleep good tonight knowing that we're not all robots? That's right. It made me think Courage is contagious, right?

01:12:18.680 - 01:12:27.270

So as soldiers are wrestling with these things, do they, do they hear from their preachers? Do they hear from their pastors? Do they hear from their chaplains and their Christian leaders the the call to

01:12:27.270 - 01:12:38.720

be courageous? And is that courage somehow becoming contagious? It also made me think of, you know, for every John the Baptist, there's also a Joseph of Arimathea working in the Sanhedrin.

01:12:39.960 - 01:12:55.030

And for every Elijah, there's also an O Halaya working in King Ahab's palace to preserve a remnant. So sometimes we think that God is only at work outside the confines of whether ecclesiastical or governmental structural powers, when in fact,

01:12:55.030 - 01:13:08.480

there are ways that God is doing great things even there through, through, through your ministry, through so many others in their ministry, whether that's the armed forces or police chaplains or fire chaplains. I mean, you could just go down the list.

01:13:09.040 - 01:13:25.120

Hospital chaplains. My mother went through end of life in our home for the final year of her life. We were back and forth to the hospital and it was closer to COVID. So everybody was still wearing masks as they would come in and out,

01:13:25.120 - 01:13:35.530

all of the hospital staff. And so I was there with like, my, you know, my my baseball cap and my gym shorts and my T-shirt. And, you know, I'm sleeping the night there on the

01:13:35.530 - 01:13:46.280

little uncomfortable couch. And my mom's there in the hospital bed. And the chaplains come in and one of them takes off the mask and go, Doctor Al Contour, is that you?

01:13:47.680 - 01:13:56.120

And I said, oh, hey, I'm sorry, I don't know your name. Oh, my name is so. And so I graduated from Truitt in such and such a year. And I heard that you were on the on the faculty at Truitt.

01:13:56.120 - 01:14:03.080

I said, oh, yeah, that's right. Well, good to meet you. This is my mom. And this is what casual looks like.

01:14:04.560 - 01:14:13.200

So we laughed. And then the social worker comes in and the social worker takes off her mask and she goes, Doctor Al Contour, is that you? And I say, hey, Paige, how's it going?

01:14:13.600 - 01:14:22.120

So it looks like you finished your, your social work degree on top of your Mdiv, right? And she said, I said, this is my mom and this is what casual looks like, right?

01:14:23.160 - 01:14:34.280

And then I saw another true of grad, another true of grad. And it's like the, the Kingdom of God was breaking out right there in that hospital through social workers and chaplains and other staff members and interns.

01:14:34.280 - 01:14:45.480

And it's just, it's just beautiful to behold. So anyway, it's just a, a recent illustration of the very thing you're describing of God's people being about God's work in the world. One more and then we're going to go on a break.

01:14:45.480 - 01:14:57.960

We won't have time to discuss this, but I just want you to think about this one. We'll just play it like this. I was talking with a preacher the other day and he said his members,

01:14:57.960 - 01:15:15.440

a few of his members were saying that I said don't pay any attention to them because #1 the members didn't anoint you to preach. And any preacher who allows members to tell him what the preacher is much of A preacher for the guidelines made it very clear that God anointed.

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No member of Ebenezer Baptist Church called me to the ministry. You called me to Ebenezer. And you may turn me out of here, but you can't turn me out of the ministry because I got my guidelines and my anointment from God Almighty.

01:15:31.080 - 01:15:43.520

And anything I want to say, I'm going to say it from this pulpit. It may hurt somebody. I don't know about that. Somebody may not agree with it, but when God speaks, who can?

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But prophesied word of God is upon me like fire, shut up in my bone. And when God's word gets upon me, I've got to say it. I've got to tell it all over everywhere. And God has called me to deliver those that are in captivity.

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Some people are suffering. Some people are hungry this morning. Some people are still living with segregation and discrimination. This morning I'm going to preach about it.

01:16:16.760 - 01:16:29.410

Preach it. I'm going to fight for them. I'll die for them if necessary, because I got my guidelines clear and the God that I serve and the God that called me to preach told me that every now and

01:16:29.410 - 01:16:40.000

then I'll have to go to jail for them. Every now and then I'll have to agonize and suffer for the freedom of His children. I even may have to die for it.

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But if that's necessary, I'd rather follow the guidelines of God and to follow the guidelines of men. And the church is called to set free those that are captive. So this sermon was preached 2 years before he was assassinated.

01:17:01.080 - 01:17:19.680

So 1966 preached at Ebenezer and I only I decided to do this clip. There's there's another one that I could have played. I just want you to know about it. He preached A sermon right before he was assassinated called Unfulfilled Dreams.

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And the text is from Chronicles and it's about David's desire to build a temple. And the Lord says to David, you will not build this temple, but it is well that it was within thine heart. So if anyone understood what it was like to have dreams and to have those dreams

01:17:44.560 - 01:18:05.760

feel shattered and unfulfilled, it was king. But let's get back to conviction for a moment before we take our break. Because there has to be some kind of gasoline fueled fire that drives someone to to an extent where they know that even if they lose their job,

01:18:05.760 - 01:18:16.000

that doesn't change their anointing and their calling. And it ends up driving their courage. Right. And what does he say?

01:18:16.000 - 01:18:27.680

He says, if you want to run me out of here, that's your prerogative. That doesn't change my anointing and my call to preach. And if you're hurt by what I say, then you know, that's that's unfortunate.

01:18:28.800 - 01:18:37.760

Nevertheless, I'm called to preach. I don't think when he says that, he's saying that preachers can just crush people with their words. I don't think that's what he's pointing to.

01:18:37.760 - 01:18:54.100

He's saying that there has to be something even inherently offensive about the gospel in the sense that it calls into question our false allegiances and our false alliances. It calls into question our idol worship it it challenges us to forsake and to

01:18:54.100 - 01:19:06.360

forgo bowing the knee to the powers of an age that's passing away. That's what Bruggeman says when he says that we must practice prophetic imagination, that the role of the preacher is to engage in a contest.

01:19:06.800 - 01:19:25.000

And the contest is between the narrative of Yahweh and the dominant worldview that's passing away. And the preacher's job is to help people hear and believe and see and savour the way things really are in Jesus Christ instead of this world view that's passing

01:19:25.000 - 01:19:37.460

away. So that they no longer genuflect before those powers. And instead they they, they bow the knee before the one, the one true God of the gospel, that that's where their allegiance and

01:19:37.460 - 01:19:53.310

their affection lies. So there's this commitment on King's part to say this isn't a job to me. This is a calling to me. And because it's a calling, even if you don't like it and even if you

01:19:53.310 - 01:20:02.680

fire me for it, nevertheless I have to say it. Let's take a break. We'll see you back here in 15 minutes or a little less than 15. We'll see you back here at 2:45.

01:20:02.680 - 01:20:12.360

So take a break, get some refreshments. We'll see you shortly. All right, everybody. Well, I'll call you back together.

01:20:12.800 - 01:20:24.690

And we'll continue our conversation with one another. Thank you so much. It's been great getting to know you during the breaks. And I'm so grateful for all of the interaction that I'm that I'm hearing

01:20:24.690 - 01:20:34.480

from you as well. And I really think we're talking about a lot of the themes related to convictional preaching, all the all of the things that have come up, even just in what we've been listening to.

01:20:35.360 - 01:20:51.070

Obviously with Mandela, A commitment that runs so deep that someone's willing to lay down his life, that he wants to live his life for this commitment, but he's also willing to lay down his life for this commitment With Prathia Hall,

01:20:51.070 - 01:21:04.900

this this vision of ministry and of preaching and of the call of God upon her life. So we see how calling is connected. We see how a ministry of both compassion and justice that's that's complemented by

01:21:04.900 - 01:21:24.840

a commitment to repentance and forgiveness of sins that all of that is a is a more comprehensive, organic, holistic way of understanding gospel ministry and calling and, and who God calls us to be and what God calls us to say and what God calls us to do with Romero right.

01:21:24.840 - 01:21:39.200

There is a love of Christ that is wide enough and broad enough and deep enough to welcome the campesinos, right, The the peasants, the the poor, the Amharis, right. If we're talking about the people of the land in the New Testament.

01:21:40.040 - 01:21:56.930

But then when we think about it in the context of El Salvadoros, campesinos, the the, the people of the land and the soldiers who are oppressing them, that there is a gospel that's big enough that there's Christ's arms are wide enough to open his arms to both the the

01:21:56.930 - 01:22:12.800

oppressed and the oppressor, to both the victim and the perpetrator. That this gospel call is for everyone. And you've got Romero saying that we must expose the sin of the society. But remember the title of the book, The violence of love, right?

01:22:13.440 - 01:22:30.130

That there is a love that undergirds all of it. That as we expose the sin of society, we do so in love with love, with a sense of passion and commitment to God and to the people, to people for whom Christ died, and an insistence on a vision that sees

01:22:30.130 - 01:22:47.520

what is possible on account of the Kingdom of God. And then with Doctor King, this, this might be saying it too succinctly, but there is an understanding and A and an appreciation for and a respect for the fact that God's the one who gives the orders and I'm the one who's called to

01:22:47.520 - 01:22:54.520

follow. And if I lose my job, so be it. And really, I mean, especially in the final two years of his life.

01:22:54.880 - 01:23:11.730

If I lose my life, so be it. There's a sense that there's a sense, there's a commitment to an anointing from the Lord guided by the Spirit. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he has anointed me to proclaim good news

01:23:11.730 - 01:23:30.410

to the poor. So, so with, with King, he says, I'm going to follow God's guidelines. And, and yes, you may not like that, but nevertheless, I must. There's a, a cartoon in The New Yorker and it's two

01:23:30.410 - 01:23:49.520

people coming out of a church and he's wearing top hat and tails. They're a married couple and she's got like a mink coat on or what have you. And the caption underneath says that the preacher, they're joking, they've got smiles on their faces.

01:23:50.680 - 01:24:04.240

And they say that the preach, it's getting harder and harder for the preacher not to offend us. So you get the joke right in The New Yorker right there. They, they love never having to feel

01:24:04.240 - 01:24:18.720

uncomfortable. And they think it's funny that the preacher keeps trying to find ways around confronting them in their sin, in their idolatry. So there isn't an there isn't an offensive element that comes with gospel

01:24:18.720 - 01:24:35.080

preaching, that comes with gospel ministry and that comes with convictional preaching in a divisive time. And so I already showed you the the five practices wheel. Let me just show you another slide here.

01:24:35.800 - 01:24:47.760

So as we think about convictional preaching, I thought about it in terms of four CS, right? There's of course conviction and we could say belief and commitment to that cause greater than oneself or a mission greater than one's life.

01:24:48.480 - 01:24:58.240

So when we think about our beliefs, what do we believe about God? What do we believe about preaching? What do we believe about the world? What do we believe about people?

01:24:59.600 - 01:25:15.120

And then of course, character. Character is critical. So sometimes that we'll talk about having firm strong beliefs in, in A cause, but do you and maybe even being passionate about that cause.

01:25:15.120 - 01:25:27.280

But do you remember what I said earlier? Charisma without character is catastrophe, right? So character, of course, is, is critical. And we'll talk about spiritual formation.

01:25:27.920 - 01:25:46.200

We'll talk about the importance of what are called practices of interiority and practices of exteriority, and sometimes we'll use the language of receptivity and activity. So interiority goes on in that side of receptivity and exteriority goes on that

01:25:46.200 - 01:26:04.540

side of activity. To be a person of Christian character is to be a person who is receptive to God as in terms of their spiritual walk with God and the practices that they engage in to be receptive to God and a person who is active for God,

01:26:04.540 - 01:26:21.640

who engages in practice of exteriority that show evidence of the character within them. So we have conviction. We have character calling back to the king, the king audio excerpt, right?

01:26:22.120 - 01:26:32.120

You may throw me out of Ebenezer. Nevertheless, I'm still called to preach. My anointing doesn't come from you. My anointing comes from God.

01:26:32.760 - 01:26:42.000

Have you ever been so discouraged in ministry where if it were not for your calling, you would have been doing something else by now? Yes, yes.

01:26:42.000 - 01:26:54.180

And some of you were like, yeah, that's this week. I pulled out my resignation letter again and then just put it right back in my desk. I mean, think about that, that there are, there are easier jobs,

01:26:54.180 - 01:27:01.760

quote UN quote jobs. There are easier things to do. There are situations that you could be involved in where people are less critical of you.

01:27:05.480 - 01:27:24.320

Nevertheless, you've been called, you've been called to this work. There's a scene in Amos 7 where Amos stands up against a Messiah, the priest, he's the priest of Bethel, and a Messiah basically says go back to Judah, earn your bread, make your living there.

01:27:24.680 - 01:27:41.320

You're not welcome here. This is the King's sanctuary and you go, which king does he bow before? And, and, and Amos's response is God took me and God called me to go.

01:27:42.640 - 01:27:55.760

So basically, I'm not going back. That's that part's the paraphrase, right? But God took me and God called me here. So there's a courage that comes from calling and from an insistence on

01:27:55.760 - 01:28:08.520

believing that God, God's the one who's given us these marching orders. And then we'll talk a little bit about content as well and the importance of preaching recognisably Christian sermons.

01:28:09.400 - 01:28:19.770

Gardner Taylor, he was quoting from from an anonymous proverb. But the anonymous proverb goes like this. Religion that does not begin with the individual does not begin,

01:28:19.770 - 01:28:35.040

but religion that ends with the individual always ends. It's both end instead of either or. So religion that does not begin with the individual does not begin, but religion that ends with the individual always ends.

01:28:36.240 - 01:28:51.000

And so what's he getting at? He's getting at this critical dynamic that we must insist upon when we think about preaching recognisably Christian sermons. The shepherd who has the 99 sheep does what goes after the 1.

01:28:51.920 - 01:29:01.720

And so it doesn't matter. It does matter. Repentance, preaching a gospel of repentance in the forgiveness of sins matters to John the Baptist in Luke 3 and Matthew 3.

01:29:02.000 - 01:29:16.320

So it does matter. And it also matters that when Jesus says you must be born again, it's in the plural. So I live in Texas now.

01:29:16.360 - 01:29:31.690

Y'all must be born again. Jesus is talking about a people that a people must give themselves over to God and be born again. Or when the apostle Paul, you know the the passage you would quote

01:29:31.690 - 01:29:40.040

from at weddings. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. If you put it in context, Paul is telling the church to grow up.

01:29:41.680 - 01:29:54.570

When I was a child, I thought like a child. I reasoned like a child, but when I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Or first Peter 2 You are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,

01:29:54.570 - 01:30:09.550

God's treasured procession, that you might declare the praises of the one who called you out of darkness and into his marvellous like, that's y'all too. So y'all are a chosen people, y'all are a royal priesthood,

01:30:09.550 - 01:30:22.240

y'all are a holy nation, so that y'all might declare the praises of him who called y'all out of darkness and into his marvellous like. You get the point. So if it doesn't begin with the individual, it doesn't begin.

01:30:22.240 - 01:30:34.040

If it ends with the individual, it always ends. So content matters. It does matter that we think about individuals and we think, like Romero, about the exposing the sin of the society.

01:30:34.040 - 01:30:48.500

Both are critical. So let's talk about character for a moment. And I mentioned the language of receptivity and activity. I'll get to that in just a moment, but here's some and negative habits to

01:30:48.500 - 01:31:04.480

resist when we think about our own spiritual formation. Now, when I talk to when I talk to my students about this and I write about this in in in the chapter as well in the practices of Christian preaching.

01:31:05.720 - 01:31:17.280

Every once in a while someone will say, but can't people be lazy too and not just workaholics. That is true. I just haven't met a lot of lazy pastors.

01:31:18.080 - 01:31:35.080

I've met a lot of exhausted pastors and I remember being an exhausted pastor. I just haven't met a lot of lazy pastors. There's probably plenty of them, but most of my experience. I'm anecdotal here, but most of them are in danger of burnout.

01:31:35.080 - 01:31:45.840

Just look at the statistics. Right, So workaholism is a is something that can take over our ministry. Perhaps you're feeling like you're on the the edge of burnout too.

01:31:46.040 - 01:32:02.520

You're not the first and you won't be the last. There's something about wanting to walk for God that causes us to forget that Enoch walked with God. And sometimes.

01:32:03.920 - 01:32:15.720

Here's Richard Lovelace in his book Life of the Spirit. He said many Christians believe that their sanctification depends on their justification, but they behave like their justification depends on their sanctification.

01:32:17.280 - 01:32:37.290

In other words, if I preach more sermons and if I save more souls and if I build that building, then God will think I'm good enough. So these subliminal messages that we might tell ourselves that they can be subtle and subversive too, that if I just work hard enough in

01:32:37.290 - 01:32:52.100

ministry and God will be happy with me. So sometimes it goes real deep, our workaholism, vanity, celebrity, arrogance, inauthenticity, prayerlessness. Now, without naming names, you could say like I'm just speaking for

01:32:52.100 - 01:32:58.040

a friend or something like that. Where do you see this? Where do you see this on social media? Where do you see this on TV?

01:32:58.720 - 01:33:07.020

Where do you see this just in your networks? Do you? Where do you see this happening? You don't have to name any names, but let me just hear from a couple of you

01:33:07.020 - 01:33:21.600

and we'll wait for the mics to go ahead. Well, I, I think the whole issue of arrogance and in the authenticity is fostered by social media because you're hiding behind a screen, you know, you're, you're not looking into the face of the

01:33:21.600 - 01:33:38.160

person who's going to be reading what you say. So those things are a real temptation and difficulty of social media. Yeah, you can. You can say things you would never say in front of someone's face to their face.

01:33:38.400 - 01:33:49.600

Yes. And we're trying to help our oldest daughter understand that you can't say unkind things to us over text because there's someone on the other end of that text message.

01:33:50.200 - 01:34:01.080

And so why don't we sit down and talk about how we might have hurt you by mistake or, or what have you. And we'll, we'll listen to you. But you can also hear from us how what you said hurt us.

01:34:01.160 - 01:34:04.160

Right. OK. Other hands. Yeah.

01:34:04.160 - 01:34:09.760

I see a hand here. I was also going to say televangelists. Televangelists. Yes.

01:34:09.760 - 01:34:14.640

Yes, absolutely. Yes. There can be a certain. Oh, goodness.

01:34:14.640 - 01:34:21.480

I'm trying to remember who said this. It was at the turn of the 20th century. The name will come to me. Ingi.

01:34:21.600 - 01:34:37.280

I think it's RW Ingi. But he was using masculine languages the beginning of the 20th century. But he referred to a phenomenon known as Man of God syndrome, which we could also say woman of God syndrome.

01:34:38.000 - 01:34:54.370

And so this like tendency to in sports, they would say to read your own news clippings, right. If everybody says you are a man of God or a woman of God, then you then conclude that you're a man of God and woman of God,

01:34:54.370 - 01:35:05.740

which then causes you to conclude that no one who has anything to say to you has much to say. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say I see it in myself, You know,

01:35:05.740 - 01:35:14.080

just being completely honest, that idea creeping in of somebody saying, oh, you're someone was so great. It was amazing. Your great.

01:35:14.320 - 01:35:27.120

It's like I have to check my intention. I've never preached a day in my life, by the way. But the idea of it, I want to make sure that it's grounded and I'm trying to be a channel for God, not for myself.

01:35:27.840 - 01:35:41.020

So I see that in myself and have to check it. Yes, well, that's very wise. And you anticipated my follow up question is where do we see this in ourselves? We were talking about this earlier that so many preachers today are better at

01:35:41.020 - 01:35:59.980

preaching Romans one than Romans 2. So Romans 2 begins, You therefore have no excuse you who pass judgement on someone else because you do the same things. So there's, there's, I mean, maybe there's some prayerlessness in you

01:35:59.980 - 01:36:11.010

and in me. Maybe there's some vanity and some arrogance in you and in me. So maybe these can describe us too. And I just, you know, there's other things that we could put on

01:36:11.010 - 01:36:27.370

this list, but it's more just to get us thinking about some habits that we could cultivate if we're not careful. I just workaholism is rampant and I learned when I was substitute teaching that the value in always working on the next worksheet is so the classroom does

01:36:27.370 - 01:36:36.880

not mutiny and the teacher is not in danger. And but we grow up thinking, well, I got to get the next worksheet. You know, no, don't. You can't just be sitting there doing nothing.

01:36:36.880 - 01:36:46.380

You can't be sitting there doing nothing. And, and when I see people in therapy and it's like, but I have to do the next thing and I'm really bad about that myself, it's like, Oh no,

01:36:46.380 - 01:36:55.400

if there's nothing but that kind of keeps you out of the prayerfulness because then you're always looking for the next task. Absolutely. Yeah.

01:36:55.400 - 01:37:09.680

And they can be an attachment of our value with looking for that next task, climbing that next hill, accomplishing that next goal, making sure that we stay busy because if we're busy, then we don't have to deal with our thoughts and, and our struggles and so on.

01:37:10.600 - 01:37:25.830

When I was, I was like 20/16/2017, I think was just having some real challenges with my mental health and went to see a counselor and was talking with this counselor. And just to give you some context, you know,

01:37:25.830 - 01:37:34.200

I was doing things on intercultural churches and interculturally competent preaching. And we were. So I was doing like I was teaching on different cultural values.

01:37:34.200 - 01:37:51.440

And one of the values, according to Hofsteed, where there can be differences globally would be whether it's he calls them culture clusters, but there's certain culture clusters that emphasize doing and other culture clusters that emphasize being.

01:37:52.000 - 01:38:06.440

And there's a shadow side to both like someone who never focuses on doing, you know, could play video games in his parents basement until he's 32, right when it's time to grow up and do, you know, get a job.

01:38:07.680 - 01:38:18.680

So there's a danger there too, but one of the dangers with doing. So I'm talking to this counselor and I say, well, I've, you know, helped raise some money for scholarships. And I've, I've done this and I've done that.

01:38:18.680 - 01:38:27.960

I was working at a seminary called Trinity in Chicago. So I'm trying to do this. And, and, and he stopped me and he said, you know, all of those things that you're trying to do for God, Those are, those are good.

01:38:30.400 - 01:38:36.720

How much have you focused on being? And I was like, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't, don't use my stuff against me.

01:38:36.720 - 01:38:44.410

That's not OK with me. Right? But what was he doing? I think he was exposing something that so many Christian ministers face,

01:38:44.410 - 01:38:58.490

which is like, you know, our life versus whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God, right? It's like I'm doing these things for God and I'm accomplishing things. But there's there's a shadow side, and the shadow side is we might not make

01:38:58.490 - 01:39:12.200

it to 50 because of all the things we're trying to do for God. So I've learned to say no to a lot of things. And sometimes my answer is because I want to live past 50. And they'll kind of I sort of joke.

01:39:12.200 - 01:39:17.600

And they're kind of like, I think he's serious. I think he wants to live past 50. I think that's his new goal in life. Yes.

01:39:17.640 - 01:39:21.160

Yeah. I was going to say, oh, that was a strong mic. Wow. OK.

01:39:21.160 - 01:39:27.240

I already talked loud. I probably don't need this, but I would say inauthentic. Inauthenticity. Yeah.

01:39:27.800 - 01:39:31.040

What's the word? An authenticity. There you go. That's a tough one.

01:39:32.160 - 01:39:41.800

Yeah, I see. I feel like the temptation to be inauthentic, particularly in times that we're living in and particularly when the check supply or the church supplies your paycheck.

01:39:43.320 - 01:39:56.240

And if you end up like, you know, in a church where in the Episcopal Church we have vestries or councils or whatever. Those are the people who are paying you. Those are the people who call you to the church.

01:39:56.240 - 01:40:12.600

And I know this kind of goes along with the male case sermon there, but just resisting that like quenching what you really want to say and who you really are because you know, you have to get paid. And I think also.

01:40:13.640 - 01:40:31.960

A lot of brown folks who are in mainline denominations that are mostly not brown, the temptation to fit in is like is really high. And so you there's a temptation to be inauthentic to who you really are. So I'm really glad you brought up both of those points.

01:40:31.960 - 01:40:48.050

But regarding the latter point, you know, I mentioned the intercultural competence stuff that that I've worked on and, and I've taught on, but in that literature, there's this language of minimization and minimization and majority culture can sound like on matters of diversity,

01:40:48.050 - 01:41:01.580

people say, oh, we're all different, but in the end we're all the same or something like that, right? But the, the research shows that in communities of color, minimization looks like and sounds like

01:41:01.580 - 01:41:17.230

I'm going to go along to get along or I'm going to go along to get by. And that actually can be an effective strategy, like in the corporate world or in the in higher Ed, because someone can go along to get along and get tenure or become a full professor

01:41:17.230 - 01:41:29.640

or become ACEO. The problem is it slowly kills you. You wither on the vine because you're not able to bring your whole self into that environment because of all of the ramifications of doing so.

01:41:29.640 - 01:41:44.560

So yeah, that can be very, very damaging to our lives spiritually because we feel like, yes, we have to be improvisational in diverse context, but we can't allow that to keep us from being ourselves.

01:41:45.320 - 01:41:55.080

There's a prayer of Kierkegaard in his book of prayers, and I'll say it with my students. So the prayer is real simple. One, with God's help, I shall become myself.

01:41:56.560 - 01:42:04.600

Now he's talking about our redeemed selves. He's not talking about our sin nature, right? With God's help, I shall become myself. So let's try that together.

01:42:04.600 - 01:42:21.090

Let's pray that together with God's help, I shall become myself. Go ahead. Kind of like following what my sister was saying, I feel that for people of colour and if if you continue to add the old layers

01:42:21.090 - 01:42:38.400

right in. In my case, I'm I'm a woman, I'm an immigrant, I'm a person of colour. So all of that also adds some heavyweight about the expectations and, and most of the times, especially talking to other female

01:42:38.400 - 01:42:57.000

pastors that kind of are in the same situation as I am, there's always an expectation of, of fulfilling a role that sometimes it's hard to put together with the person, right. So that adds much more because you have to prove,

01:42:57.000 - 01:43:14.810

kind of prove yourself that you deserve to be where you are and that you have everything to fulfill that role. So I think that makes it even harder, Yes. And one of the struggles that we can have in in church ministry too,

01:43:14.810 - 01:43:28.600

is that we're this person with all of our complexities, Whitman said. I contain multitudes, right? So with this person in all of our complexities, with our hopes and heart breaks and our brokenness and our triumphs,

01:43:28.600 - 01:43:45.510

our peaks in our valleys over here. And then there's this office over here called pastor or preacher or Christian leader. And trying to bring those two things into convergence can can already be

01:43:45.510 - 01:43:59.130

challenging. But then when you Add all the layers that you're talking about too. So in preaching class, this might sound like someone trying to sound very different than their actual voice or to even with their body

01:43:59.130 - 01:44:14.800

movements to try to look very different than how they would normally interact with people. Now, there is something to that in the sense that we imitate the people we admire and respect before we become before we find

01:44:14.800 - 01:44:25.360

our voice. That's not really what I'm talking about. I think it, it can become inauthentic when we're actually running from who we are in our voice.

01:44:25.360 - 01:44:33.840

So, so there can be a way that we are so alienated from who we are. Often it can be because we, we, we can't bring those two things into convergence.

01:44:34.520 - 01:44:52.040

Let's talk about healthy habits to pursue as well. So I frame them as dialectics. And the reason I use that phrase is because you kind of have on, on different poles 2 things that are connected.

01:44:52.040 - 01:45:01.840

That's why. So there's three dialectics, 6 practices, but the six, the six practices are kind of divided into these three dialectics. And the first one is prayer and study.

01:45:02.800 - 01:45:16.200

I think we can learn a lot from the monastic communities on this front. In the medieval church, the monastics would say operare estorare to work is to pray. But you you can find this too.

01:45:16.200 - 01:45:32.010

Aquinas had a prayer before sitting down to study. And when when I was at PTSI think it was Alan Chari who had her students learned that prayer before sitting down to study. There's a, even though these are framed as

01:45:32.010 - 01:45:47.800

dialectics, there's a, there's a way that we can study prayerfully and there's a way that we can also think about prayer as work in the best sense of that word to work as we pray. And then activity and receptivity.

01:45:47.800 - 01:46:01.040

I used that language earlier. Kay N Could wrote a great book called Kindling Desire for God, and it's about spiritual formation and the spiritual formation of preachers. And she uses this language of activity and receptivity.

01:46:01.400 - 01:46:17.910

But you could also talk about exteriority and interiority. So think about it this way that with practices of that are active practices that are focused on exteriority. We think about spiritual formation in terms of engaging in the life of the

01:46:17.910 - 01:46:32.800

church and of the community and of the world, in particular those who are poor and marginalized in the world. So that's that side of activity and exteriority over on the side of receptivity and interiority.

01:46:33.440 - 01:46:54.550

We think about our inner life, our prayer life, our our times with God, our our walk with God, our times reading scripture, our times maybe perhaps with a spiritual director, even times with others in prayer, which can can be a combination of the two

01:46:54.550 - 01:47:20.870

and that we're engaging people and also engaging in our life with God. There are dangers in in running to either extreme. If we only pursue the interior life, then we could forget about the world, we could forget about other people and and we could forget about God's work in

01:47:20.870 - 01:47:38.410

the world. We could forget about issues related to justice in the world. But if we only engage in practices of activity or exteriority, then we could be a phenomenal preacher whose life is like hell or a phenomenal

01:47:38.410 - 01:47:58.140

activist, phenomenal justice worker, phenomenal social worker. But there's nothing on the inside. And there can be a hollowness to us on the inside if we're not careful. I remember I was at a preaching conference and I was talking with some of

01:47:58.140 - 01:48:15.220

the people at the conference. And I'll never forget what one of my colleagues said to me because we were talking about a particularly gifted preacher. And my colleague said to me also in preaching ministry and also, you know,

01:48:15.220 - 01:48:35.760

part of part of the the gathering, I'll never forget what he said. He said so and so can preach the birds out of the trees, but his life is like hell. Do you understand now why receptivity and interiority are important?

01:48:36.760 - 01:48:50.600

Or I'll quote from a well known person. You could gain the whole world and lose your own soul. Yeah, he had some good things to say. So activity and receptivity and then aloneness and community.

01:48:50.600 - 01:48:59.080

Let me go to Bonhoeffer here. And you can see how they're all related, too, right? Like receptivity, interiority. Often those things are done alone.

01:48:59.080 - 01:49:17.960

But often activity and exteriority, those things are done in community. But I'm going to give it to someone who could say it far better than I could. Here's Bonhoeffer in life together, let the one who cannot be alone beware of community.

01:49:17.960 - 01:49:38.760

He or she will only do harm to themselves and to the community. You cannot escape from yourself, for God has singled you out. If you refuse to be alone, you are rejecting Christ's call to you and you can have no part in the community of those who are called.

01:49:40.960 - 01:49:57.050

So when we've done that like preaching and spiritual formation courses, I'll ask students like where do you, are you one of those folks who's on the lands on the study side or on the prayer side? Do you land more on the exterior side or on the interior side or activity

01:49:57.050 - 01:50:09.860

receptive? How about the alone side or the community side? And then when we engage in some spiritual formation practices, we try to push ourselves, like to take risks in the areas where we

01:50:09.860 - 01:50:22.780

feel most uncomfortable in order to grow. And so I don't need to put the next slide up. But for those who are terrified of being alone, one of their activities and they can choose,

01:50:22.780 - 01:50:44.840

but one of their activities is a retreat of solitude and silence. And those who who never want to be in community, have someone over for a meal, break bread with them. Talk, you know, talk, talk, talk some, even if you don't want to talk.

01:50:46.640 - 01:50:57.440

So here's the second-half of Bonhoeffer's quote. The reverse is also true. Let him who is not in community beware of being alone into the community. You were called.

01:50:58.120 - 01:51:11.910

The call was not meant for you. Alone in the community of the called, you bear your cross. You struggle, you pray, you are not alone, even in death, and on that last day you will be only one member of the great congregation of Jesus

01:51:11.910 - 01:51:23.080

Christ. If you scorn the fellowship of the brethren, you reject the call of Jesus Christ, and thus your solitude can only be hurtful to you.

01:51:25.440 - 01:51:40.960

So we have activity, receptivity, aloneness, aloneness and community. And then we also have prayer and study. And let me find my sheets of paper. I must have misplaced them.

01:51:40.960 - 01:51:46.840

I'm so sorry. Would you bring them up to me? I I don't want to tell you the wrong colour. Here it is.

01:51:46.840 - 01:51:53.440

It's the purple. Yes, that's right. What I want you to do. I'm not.

01:51:53.440 - 01:51:59.720

We're not going to hand out. I don't think there's enough sheets of paper for everyone. Maybe there is there enough sheets for for everybody. Not right.

01:52:00.080 - 01:52:03.640

Yeah. I didn't think so. That's fine. So you can just look over somebody's shoulder.

01:52:03.640 - 01:52:14.400

You can type this out. Or if you brought your journal with you, I just want to give you a little time on your own to think through these questions. I'm going to steal one for a moment.

01:52:15.480 - 01:52:32.520

And it has to do with some of the things that I just taught on the dialectics. Negative habits to resist and then also positive habits to pursue. So spend a few moments just writing and then I'll have you share at your table. So I don't want to surprise you.

01:52:32.520 - 01:52:44.840

I don't want to bait and switch you at all. So spend a few moments writing. You don't have to write on the actual paper, but there's five questions. I'll give you just a maybe 5 to 10 minutes to write and then we'll have a

01:52:44.840 - 01:53:11.340

few moments to share together, OK? Let's hear from you. Well, have you talking to the mics so that we can hear you on streaming to those who who are going to watch the video,

01:53:11.340 - 01:53:21.090

what did you talk about? So I mean, some themes that came up like remember we talked about how conviction does have an element of belief, right? What do we believe about God, about preaching, about people,

01:53:21.090 - 01:53:34.170

about the world, about the church? Temptations were called to resist dialectics or habits were called to pursue. I didn't really get into how we understand our pneumatology is our fancy

01:53:34.170 - 01:53:46.830

word for talking about our theology of the Spirit. And then #5 is is about prayer in particular. But let's hear from you. Go ahead and raise your hand and just talk about what you might have shared at

01:53:46.830 - 01:53:53.440

your at your table with your group. Yes #1 any of them? Yeah. Any order.

01:53:53.440 - 01:54:06.840

Well, I mean, I'll start with my answer to number one, that I felt preaching was sharing the word of God, right in a way that can make it alive for people so it can convert hearts and minds. Yes, absolutely.

01:54:06.840 - 01:54:09.840

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing, too.

01:54:13.360 - 01:54:25.340

Think we see a hand back there as well and then we'll go to this gentleman after. What did you talk about at your table? Any other questions? Number one, OK, the everyone at the table agreed that

01:54:25.340 - 01:54:31.880

preaching is proclaiming God's work. Yes. OK, that's right. OK Preaching is proclaiming God's work.

01:54:32.080 - 01:54:52.790

Yes. So something I picked up along the way from a mentor when I after having preached the sermon that appeared to be somewhat not well received by certain members of the congregation, my senior pastor did some counseling with

01:54:52.790 - 01:55:10.440

me about it. And he says, well, listen, you know, every sermon should create a crisis. If you're not creating a crisis in the people listening at some level, perhaps you're not getting deep enough and to what's going on.

01:55:11.200 - 01:55:26.240

Yes, sometimes we'll compare preaching to cooking and here's why. Sometimes we think it's good and they don't. Sometimes they think it's good and we don't.

01:55:27.040 - 01:55:42.920

That's how you know the spirit somehow works in mysterious ways. And then there's also the role of improvisation. Like we learn a recipe, but eventually we know the recipe well enough to add our flavors and spices, right?

01:55:43.760 - 01:56:01.160

But here's why the analogy also works is someone who cooks for their family. It's about faithfulness over time rather than success in the short term. And so there might be an occasional meal that doesn't work out well according to the cook or according to the family.

01:56:02.520 - 01:56:14.270

But what really matters is faithful cooking over time. Now, here's a temptation that preachers face is that we're so busy. Sandra Van Osol, who who's a Latina pastor in Chicago,

01:56:14.270 - 01:56:26.960

says that so often preachers are like Latina mothers. They're so busy making sure that the family is fed, They don't have time to eat. There's a there's a temptation, right?

01:56:26.960 - 01:56:31.560

But we don't actually taste in sea. OK, I think I see. Yes. Go ahead.

01:56:32.040 - 01:56:47.640

Yeah, I think most of us here, we we said preaching is about proclaiming the good news, but our group decided that it goes beyond that. And your preaching must convict, as you said, there must be a conviction.

01:56:47.640 - 01:57:04.680

Both the preacher in your heroes must be convicted and one of us said preaching inform, it brings information and transformation to Yeah, so it goes. It goes beyond that and the end result must be salvation.

01:57:05.600 - 01:57:19.080

At the end of your preaching, If nobody, yes, yeah. If nobody repents, I think you've done nothing. So you must go on preaching talk. You see the result that is salvation.

01:57:19.440 - 01:57:31.310

Yes, yes. I'm glad you brought up that last point too, because it's the Spirit of God that takes care of the outcomes. But we're very focused on outcomes, especially in our culture,

01:57:31.310 - 01:57:38.720

in this society. Yeah, but Jesus didn't really say much about success and outcomes. He said a lot about faithfulness and fruitfulness.

01:57:39.160 - 01:57:51.520

Like are you remaining connected to the vine or you bearing fruit and consistency with a life that is connected to the vine? Like, I don't, I can't really think of many texts or any texts where he talks about success.

01:57:52.120 - 01:58:04.440

He talks about outcomes in the sense that if you remain faithful and fruitful, then you could reap a harvest a hundredfold. But he's talking more about the mysterious, the agronomies of the Kingdom of God, as Gardner Taylor used to say.

01:58:05.760 - 01:58:10.640

OK, yes, in the back. Oh, OK. All right, we'll keep it moving. I don't mean to keep talking.

01:58:10.640 - 01:58:18.080

I'm just a first year seminary student. That's all right. Please share. Please share One of the things that I ended up mentioning to the group is

01:58:18.080 - 01:58:32.780

regarding question 4 about the Holy Spirit. And with that in preaching like I fully believe that the Holy Spirit like influences especially for me like what I preach and how I preach. Like I the only way you ever see me write a sermon is when I get it from the Spirit

01:58:32.780 - 01:58:46.380

and then I write it. And when I do preach, which is very few and far between, I let the Spirit guide it. And I always say a prayer before I preach, which is give me the right amount of

01:58:46.380 - 01:59:00.800

words, no more, no less, to preach whatever it is, You have me right. And so I think it's very connected to preaching and to be attuned to it is important to deliver messages with conviction.

01:59:01.200 - 01:59:19.210

Yes, I'm so glad you brought that up too. And part of why I frame it as both prayer and study rather than prayer or study is that over on one extreme are people who if I just get the text right or just get the words just right, then everything else will take care of

01:59:19.210 - 01:59:28.630

itself. And then over here, there could be people who are fervent in prayer. But the risk, you know, every strength, my wife likes to say every strength can

01:59:28.630 - 01:59:43.040

be a weakness over here. Could also be that if we're prayerful but don't necessarily study, then what is preaching? It could be something else and there could be a risk too.

01:59:43.040 - 01:59:52.960

So I'm really glad that you bringing those of us. I mean, I, I'll, I'll read 10 books and struggle with prayer, right? So you're bringing us along.

01:59:52.960 - 02:00:10.400

If that's our proclivity, I'm really glad you are. Yes, on #2 I'm a workaholic. I have been, I, I started a business in 1987. I started being a pastor in 2020.

02:00:11.080 - 02:00:30.740

So and I just now closed my business. So it's, it's been an interesting trip because I realized as a pastor that I couldn't do that anymore. It, it doesn't help anybody, but I've been trained that way for 30

02:00:30.740 - 02:00:50.920

some odd years. So that that's been a really hard thing for me to put that aside. Luckily, though, I've got a wonderful congregation that puts up with me and they've taught me to slow down, just back off and take my time.

02:00:51.120 - 02:01:02.800

And that's been a real blessing for me. I'm so glad you, glad you shared that and thank you for being vulnerable in that way. I had a colleague at Trinity, the seminary I taught at before.

02:01:03.680 - 02:01:22.840

He would say this to students. He would say, I could be that your refusal to sleep is a sign of your disobedience. And so he said, he said, what is it?

02:01:22.840 - 02:01:39.080

The the before the parable of the sower, the parable of the seeds and, and the one who is able to go to sleep while the seed is doing its work. So that it says something about the seed, that the seed is working even while we're sleeping.

02:01:40.200 - 02:01:56.160

But it also says something about faith, which is that we're able to trust that the seed can do what only it can do and that we don't need to be there messing with it and up late and constantly fretting and so on. This applies to work.

02:01:56.160 - 02:02:10.760

It also applies to so many other areas. But Ann Lamont likes to say that one of the many differences between God and us is that God doesn't think that God is us. So you can rest.

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You can rest, you can work, but you can also rest. And that's good news. That's good news. You can, you can let the seed do what only the

02:02:21.160 - 02:02:28.320

seed can do. OK. I think we had one more and then we'll continue 02 more and then we'll continue. We'll stop there because we've got a few more things to cover.

02:02:28.320 - 02:02:38.240

I'm still thinking about your cooking analogy. I really like that one because, you know, I've got two different daughters and they, they like different things. And each of our congregations are the same way.

02:02:38.240 - 02:02:50.360

And so sometimes when we're cooking, we're cooking for ourselves. Sometimes we're munching along the way. Just the, the, the idea of cooking up a sermon is always kind of you're munching on God's word.

02:02:51.080 - 02:02:59.570

But when you're delivering the sermon, you can't expect them to love it the same way you do. Or, you know, sometimes you're cooking for one and sometimes you're cooking for the other, or sometimes you have another community

02:02:59.570 - 02:03:04.760

over here that you're really riding this for. But we all get to eat. That's a good word. And you never know.

02:03:04.760 - 02:03:11.520

So, yeah, there's so much in that. I mean, you got the, you got the spice analogy that goes. That's right. You got the fire analogy in that one.

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It's a good. I like that one in Spanish, we'll say it needs UN saor, it needs picante. Like it needs some spice.

02:03:16.000 - 02:03:30.480

It needs some flavor. I think it also works because a family cannot live on junk food. So we also have to ask, this is a question that might bring about some conviction.

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And on our part is, do we care about the cooking? Because the cooking matters. And the cooking isn't just study. The cooking is prayer and the cooking isn't just prayer.

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The cooking is study. It's alumnus, it's community, it's receptivity, it's activity. We'll do one more. And then he does actually my pastor and he actually feeds us too,

02:03:51.260 - 02:04:00.280

as well as preaching. So you need good soup recipes and you need some good. That's right, That's right. Living it out in in in literally and figuratively.

02:04:00.320 - 02:04:04.720

Yes. And then we'll continue. Go ahead. What do you believe preaching does?

02:04:05.080 - 02:04:20.380

It enables people to choose to live in a new and different way to enter more deeply into relationship with God. Ah, Amen. Then I'd like to also just say that when I first started many years ago,

02:04:20.380 - 02:04:32.760

I had three questions every Monday morning or Sunday night. What are you going to say? How are you going to say it? What do you hope will come out of what you say?

02:04:33.600 - 02:04:43.810

And that was a good guide for me as I prepared each week for writing the message. Thank you. Yeah, those three questions can be so helpful

02:04:43.810 - 02:05:02.640

to us a frame what our role, what our task is. And that same symposium that I mentioned that Walter Brugman was at, Tom Long was at and he talked about Jesus preaching in the New Testament and he was interacting with other other scholars on the Gospel of Mark in particular.

02:05:03.240 - 02:05:17.620

But he summarized it this way. He said Jesus preaching can be summarized in in this sentence. You don't have to live this way anymore. So sometimes when we think about preaching, we think about like,

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how do I transmit a truth from a pericope? Tom Long wanted us to zoom out and think about what it must have sounded like because we see throughout the New Testament, Jesus is proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom of God.

02:05:31.240 - 02:05:45.650

What does that sound like now post crossing resurrection? It includes crossing resurrection. But I think he was doing that before crossing resurrection. So he was saying something not only about his role as the Messiah,

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but about the Kingdom of God in the world. And you don't have to live according to that other Kingdom anymore. You may know Romans 12. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world.

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Be transformed by the renewing of your minds. It's actually the word age. It's ion. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this age,

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but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. In other words, remember Brugman contest that a preacher's job is to engage in this contest, you know, and to perform the contest in such a way that people are persuaded that they no

02:06:16.500 - 02:06:26.360

longer need to bow down, to have false allegiances and alliances in a world that's passing away. So it's not the dominant worldview, it's the worldview of Yahweh. That's the way things really are.

02:06:27.080 - 02:06:41.720

Van Hooser describes theology this way as the way things really are in Jesus Christ. But that's the role of theology, the task of theology. And I would argue that's the role of preaching too, to try to name and envision and empower people to see things and to live out

02:06:41.720 - 02:06:55.400

things the way they really are in Jesus Christ, to be able to say to them, you don't need to live this way anymore. A few things to just talk about. Oh, sorry, here's Luke Powery.

02:06:55.600 - 02:07:11.080

He Co wrote a book with Sally Brown called Ways of the Word. But there's a whole chapter in that book on prayer and on spiritual formation. But here's what Powell rewrites. The hard work of preaching is actually the internal spiritual work.

02:07:11.960 - 02:07:28.230

In fact, the most difficult sermon you may ever preach is the one you preach with your life. Some of you may know the name Kenyatta Gilbert. His father, Samuel L Gilbert, was the first African American male

02:07:28.230 - 02:07:42.200

graduate of Baylor University. And also, it was the same year as the first African American female graduate of the university. So they both walked across the platform the same year.

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But his father was a pastor. Carver Memorial Baptist Church in Waco, TX, where I now live. But if you walk on the Baylor campus and you walk by the student Union building, there are these different lanterns and each one has a plaque.

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And one of the plaques is in honour of Doctor Gilbert. There's now actually a statue of Doctor Gilbert's out in front of the Tidwell Building, the religion building, along with the first African American female graduate.

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But the plaque over by the Student Union building reads, 75% of your sermon is the life that you live. No excuses. And he would say that to his sons and daughters in the ministry so that they

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would remember. It's not just about what you say on Sunday morning. In fact, it's more about every other day that matters.

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What really matters is the sermon that you preach with the life that you live. And that's what Luke Power is saying. So we come back to these four areas of character, of conviction, of calling, and how they all guide our our responsibility to preach convictionally

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in a divisive time. Let me talk a little bit about content, OK? This is from the first chapter in that book, The Practices of Christian Preaching, and it's on preaching recognizably

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Christian sermons. You remember the wheel that I talked about, so you have clarity and contextualization and creativity and concreteness, and then of course, conviction.

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And at the centre of that wheel is the responsibility to preach unambiguously, recognisably Christian sermons. And why is that so important? If you preached a well contextualised sermon where everyone was like, OK,

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she's speaking my language, she's speaking my language, but it was heterodox, then that's problematic. If you preached a really clear sermon, but it was a Christian nationalism sermon, that's a problem.

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So here's why I put that at the centre of the wheel is you could be really clear or really clever or really contextual, but have nothing to say, nothing redempted to say, nothing empowering to say, nothing, gospel saturated and God saturated to say.

02:10:12.560 - 02:10:30.760

This goes all the way back to the Bible, of course. But even Augustine in his book Christian Doctrine, he says it this way. He says there is a danger in coming up with a clever way to say something while having nothing to say.

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And I think that can be a risk, especially if we're good at preaching to sound really clever and really smart and for people to like us to not actually have something to say. So here are some pseudo gospels that we're sometimes tempted to preach,

02:10:52.050 - 02:11:07.800

and I'll try to go through them quickly, but I mentioned them in the chapter for for a number of different reasons. And I say sometimes we're tempted to preach them. And the reason I say that is because we might not even know that we're doing it.

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So I talked about, you know, character and conviction, of course, and calling. But when we get to content, it's important for us to to beware of the dangers of sometimes being tempted to preach a pseudo gospel,

02:11:25.410 - 02:11:38.530

which Paul would say is no gospel at all, which is which ends up being a false gospel. So let's start here. Maybe you've heard of Christian Smith who's a sociologist,

02:11:38.530 - 02:11:53.070

but this is from the National Youth Survey. So he and his Co researcher Melissa Longwist Denton, they ended up publishing a book called Soul Searching, which if you've ever heard of Kenda Creasy Dean and formed her book almost

02:11:53.070 - 02:12:04.560

Christian and the the research that she did as well. But here's what they discovered. They called it Christianity's misbegotten step cousin. I love that line.

02:12:05.600 - 02:12:24.390

And Christianity's misbegotten step cousin, they claimed was MTD or moralistic therapeutic deism. And they said that the surveys, the interviews revealed A pseudo, that a pseudo Christianity was slowly and they said colonizing Christianity in the

02:12:24.390 - 02:12:38.510

lives of American teenagers. And what was replacing Christianity was MTD. So moralistic therapeutic deism, moralism, meaning, you know, I'm going to need to be good in order for, for God to,

02:12:38.510 - 02:12:50.240

to care about me or love me or notice me therapeutic, that the role of God in the church is to, to make me feel good. And then deism, like there's a God up there some way, somewhere.

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But don't ask me to like figure out, don't like the language of the Trinity was absent and so on and so forth. Right. So perhaps you're aware of this research, perhaps you've heard of it.

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But here's why it's so important for us to talk about because the the typical thing that I heard when they shared their research was this look at how bad America's teenagers are becoming. Can you believe today's you?

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Can you believe them? Can you, can you really believe that they're embracing all these these false theologies and so on and so forth? But read the research closely and you'll discover that they learned it somewhere.

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Who do you think they learned it from? Parents would be one source. And what's the other source? They learned it from their pastors.

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So they learned it from their pastors, from their preachers, from their parents. And where do you think their parents heard theology? They heard it at church, right? Or they read it in books.

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Or they could be other sources too, but they learned it somewhere. So this can actually creep into our preaching, even if we don't realise it. We could focus on being good. We could focus on the role of the gospel to make sure we feel good.

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We could be really ambiguous about God, capital G, but not really talk about a triune God. It was revealed in Jesus Christ. So that's the first one.

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Second one, it's 2026. Are you seeing this one anywhere? All right, where do you think this comes from? Let me ask you, the gospel dressed in a flag or banner.

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I said, I said flag or banner because it's obviously the flag part where there can be a certain nationalism that is so dangerous and toxic and terrible to Christianity. But a banner can be a political leader, it can be a political party and it can be

02:14:41.000 - 02:14:51.760

a 'cause that becomes so ultimate that the gospel of Jesus Christ becomes penultimate to that cause. Is everyone following me? So the gospel dressed in the flag or banner.

02:14:51.760 - 02:15:03.120

What do you think is the source of this? Why would why would preachers, pastors wrap the gospel up in a flag or a banner? So what would be underneath it?

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US versus them. OK. US versus them, Right. It's easy to draw firm lines, right?

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Say we're the remnant and they're the, the, the ones who are going to hell. OK, there can be that can be one reason. Fear. Yeah.

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Fear of the other, right. We're called to love the stranger. Xenophilia. But I'm seeing a lot of xenophobia in our society today.

02:15:31.720 - 02:15:36.520

What? What else causes it? What's the source? Yes.

02:15:45.870 - 02:15:54.950

OK. So yeah, you can have a convergence where Christianity becomes legal. And Larry Hurtado wrote an amazing book called Destroyer of the Gods,

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in which he talked about ancient Christians distinctiveness and how a lot of that distinctiveness was compromised later on when it became legal. It was considered so peculiar that it was seen as either backwards or dangerous to the intellectual elites of the Roman Empire either.

02:16:14.720 - 02:16:22.720

Those people are crazy, but those people are going to blow the whole thing up if we're not careful. So yeah. OK, so there's also that.

02:16:22.720 - 02:16:42.720

And it made me think of Gardner Taylor because what can happen to religion when it enters into an alliance with government is it can be corrupted. So Gardner Taylor used to say that whenever corrupt religion and crooked government collude, Jesus Christ is crucified all over again.

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So there can be a danger there, of course, but there's. Oh, yeah, go ahead. The answer is power. Power.

02:16:51.800 - 02:17:08.320

Yeah. Say a little bit more about why power can be so seductive. Power to be the victor, right, To not be challenged and to, you know, be able to prevail over the other, right.

02:17:08.440 - 02:17:24.080

Because even in the. I mean, it's all over the Bible, right? It was people got behind and wanted military success because that's what they saw and wanted to oppress the other.

02:17:24.400 - 02:17:38.620

Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah. The seductions of power, the trappings of power, it's very, and it can certainly be an easier road to be on because it's because if you dine

02:17:38.620 - 02:17:57.280

with, if you dine with the powers, then not only are you kind of in good favour with those in power, but when they exert that power, then you're safe. But it's pretty hard to be courageous when you eat at the King's table.

02:17:59.280 - 02:18:09.240

Would Nathan have been able to say that to David? You are that man if he was always sipping wine and eating food at the King's table? No. Same thing with John the Baptist, right?

02:18:10.520 - 02:18:26.030

I think there's, there's something very human about it. I mean, if you go to First Samuel, chapter 8, you'll see it. Samuel, I'm paraphrasing Samuel, goes to the Lord and says, you're never going to believe it, but they want a king and,

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and the Lord says, well, they have a king. And Samuel says, well nevertheless, and the Lord says, well, why? Samuel says so that they could be like all the other nations. And God says, OK, that's what they want.

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I'll give them what they want. Leslie Newbiggin makes this observation because when he was serving for the Church of South India, first in Madurai and then in Madras, he noticed something.

02:18:57.080 - 02:19:09.080

He noticed like some really dangerous ideologies. But those ideologies had cropped up in places where Christianity had once made inroads. And so here was the observation that he made.

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I think it's in the gospel, in the pluralistic society, he said. When wherever Messiah has appeared, false messiahs will arise to take his place. So you could make an argument that in spaces where Christ has been Messiah,

02:19:32.050 - 02:19:52.520

that there can also be a certain seduction of false messiahs arising to take his place. Anyone perhaps worshipping a false Messiah these days, whether that's a party or a political leader or a movement or a government,

02:19:52.520 - 02:20:05.950

Of course they are. Of course we can see it. So we have to be careful that it's not in our preaching as well the gospel of health, wealth and prosperity that can can really

02:20:05.950 - 02:20:20.370

push us in a direction where we we're not focused on focusing on how the gospel is good news to the poor. Where we'll, I mean, we can just shipwreck people's faith because if they pray and they're sick and they don't get better,

02:20:20.370 - 02:20:30.560

then we'll tell them it's because they don't have faith. Well, all kinds of things that are dangerous. You know how dangerous that pseudo gospel can be. The gospel of discipleship without grace.

02:20:31.000 - 02:20:45.680

And then the gospel of grace without discipleship. Discipleship without grace. It can look like moralism, making sure that you clean the outside of the cup before you clean in order for the inside of the cup to be clean.

02:20:45.680 - 02:20:55.320

Isn't Didn't Jesus say the opposite, to clean the inside And you're focused on the outside? So it can look like moralism. It can look like legalism, which also is focused on the outside of

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the cup. Like I need to make sure I get all of the exteriors clean by following all of these rules in order for the inside to be clean. But it can also, this can be very dangerous too.

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We might not even realize it. It can also be with, it can also look like this. Making sure that everyone is with your cause. And if they're not with your 'cause then they're not with God,

02:21:23.110 - 02:21:39.280

They're not loved by God. They're they're remember, you're either with me or you're evil. So we can actually, unbeknownst to us, get people focused on following us and not focus on following God.

02:21:41.440 - 02:21:50.680

And then this last one, grace without discipleship. This is my favorite quote from H Richard Niebor, Kingdom of God in America. And he's talking about Protestantism around the middle part of the 20th century.

02:21:51.120 - 02:22:06.100

And this is how he describes theology around that time. And I think it would apply in many places today, too. He says what we want is a God without wrath who sent man without sin into a Kingdom without judgement through the administrations of a Christ without a

02:22:06.100 - 02:22:15.220

cross. So I'll say it one more time. What we want is a God without wrath who sent man without sin into a Kingdom without judgement through the administrations of a Christ without a

02:22:15.220 - 02:22:27.840

cross. So there can be a certain danger of so focusing on the indicative realities of grace that we're not actually calling people into anything bigger than themselves.

02:22:27.840 - 02:22:42.320

Remember what conviction is, right? It's a commitment to A cause greater than yourself for, for the, for the, for a mission greater than your life. So Jesus isn't calling us just to believe in him.

02:22:42.480 - 02:22:56.880

What did he say to the disciples? He says follow me, feed my sheep, right? He's he's calling them out of themselves into something greater than themselves, so they that they might be his disciples in the world.

02:22:57.840 - 02:23:06.240

As we wrap up, let me just give us a chance to do some reflection. We're almost at the end here, but let me just hear from you. We've got our mics.

02:23:07.160 - 02:23:14.560

What what's something significant that you learned today that you're going to take with you? What questions on your mind? What's muddy, What's still unclear?

02:23:14.560 - 02:23:21.800

I think we're almost at time. I don't want to keep you too long, but I wanted to give you a chance just to reflect as we wrap up. Yes.

02:23:22.440 - 02:23:41.280

My question goes to a sermon delivered by Jeremiah Wright about 23 years ago entitled God and Government. So when I saw the divisive part, I was anxious to, you know, hear what you might say about that sermon and others.

02:23:42.120 - 02:23:52.680

Yes, the Jeremiah Wright sermon in particular. That's a great question. Yeah, that sermon from Jeremiah Wright, it's been a long time since I've listened to it.

02:23:56.120 - 02:24:09.400

It makes it makes my mind go a number of different directions. 10 The name is escaping me, but it's the politics of Jesus. Someone want to help me out with that type of the author of that Obery Hendrix, I think.

02:24:10.040 - 02:24:24.160

But in that book, Obery Hendrix talks about how it it's naive of us to think that Jesus wasn't saying and doing things that were inherently political. It would be naive also to believe that the Kingdom of God has nothing to say

02:24:24.160 - 02:24:35.280

politically. So when I think about preaching in a divisive time and the call to engage in the mission of God in the world, I go back to that quote from Gardner Taylor, right.

02:24:35.440 - 02:24:53.670

If it if it never begins with the individual, it doesn't begin. But if it ends with the individual, it always ends to understand the gospel. I think in a in a more comprehensive and holistic way would be, I think to think to have a high Christology, not a low Christology,

02:24:53.670 - 02:25:14.040

because we would say that Jesus is Lord over not just individuals and families, but also over communities and cities and States and governments and nations. And if that is true, this is like Renee Paglia and Samuel Escobar and other stuff on integral mission.

02:25:14.440 - 02:25:29.720

If that is true, which which we believe that it is, then that means the gospel is for for government, it's for politics that we're called to be a voice of conscience. And we're not called to be sycophants of the state bowing down to whatever that

02:25:29.720 - 02:25:36.400

particular ruler says at that particular time. No, we're called to be the conscience of the state. This is Samuel DeWitt Proctor.

02:25:36.400 - 02:25:50.100

This is all Samuel DeWitt Proctor that that we're not the honour guard. We're called to be the conscience. What does it sound like in your context? I can't speak to each of your context, but it's important to come back to

02:25:50.100 - 02:26:05.610

convictional preaching in a divisive time, right And what were what are some things that we hold onto commitment, courage. That's foresight. It's the the one indispensable quality of preaching is courage, truth telling,

02:26:05.610 - 02:26:16.440

and hope bringing. But my wife, as I said, likes to say our greatest strength can be our greatest weakness. If we're really good at pastoral care, we might struggle with being prophetic.

02:26:17.840 - 02:26:32.350

That we might struggle. The weakness might be that it's really hard for us to say direct things that confront people and call them out. But if we're prophetic, our danger could be that we're harsh and

02:26:32.350 - 02:26:53.280

that our impatience neglects the fact that that we're people and so are they. So that's why Bruggeman and others have said, in your truth telling, don't forget to be a prisoner of hope. Think Mandela, right, truth telling, but also a vision for the New South

02:26:53.280 - 02:27:01.800

Africa even before it existed. So we expose the powers. That's Charles, That's Chuck Campbell. But we also envision their demise.

02:27:02.520 - 02:27:09.400

How do we do that? I mean, you're the resident experts on your context. But but one thing that is not in question is whether or not we should do that.

02:27:09.400 - 02:27:17.280

This isn't optional. This isn't 2nd order kind of work. We're called to do that work right now in our context. I think we're at time.

02:27:17.280 - 02:27:27.760

So I'll, I'll pass it to Doctor Helsel or I think the Aubrey Hendrix. Aubrey Hendrix, yes, I think it's called the politics of Jesus. Yes, I'll pass it to Doctor Helsel.

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Thank you so much, everybody. God bless you. Thanks for having me from the bottom of my heart. Thank you so much, Doctor Alcantra.

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This was an incredible workshop on such a timely topic and the way that you approached it with such grace and depth, I'm really going to be left with a lot of things churning in my mind. So thank you so much.

02:27:52.840 - 02:28:07.610

This has been part of the Faithful Preaching project. We offered these workshops once a semester, so if you haven't gotten on our on our a mailing list yet, please do so so we can tell you about more opportunities like this in the

02:28:07.610 - 02:28:19.920

future. Upcoming, we'll have another set of applications for cohorts for leg and clergy preachers. And so we're looking forward to welcoming and getting to know more of you in the

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years to come. Thank you again and please join me in thanking Dr. Alcantara.