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It is my great honor to introduce to you John Martin Gurney Barkley, FBA, who is a British biblical scholar, historian of Christian history and academic. He is, are you now, Emeritus, the Lightfoot Professor of Divinity Emeritus at Durham University in Durham, England. Um, his early career

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was spent at the University of Glasgow, where he was lecturer, uh, until 1996, senior lecturer until 2000, and professor until 2003. In 2004, he joined the University of Divinity at Durham, the, the Durham University, succeeding James G DG Dunn as a Lightfoot professor. His most recent

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work, Paul and the Gift from Erdman's, has drawn huge praise from scholars around the world. It's been hailed by Marcus and Buckmuh and Tim Foster as the most significant book on Paul, since EP Sanders' Paul and Palestinian Judaism. Um, One of the insights from Paul and

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the gift that led to its very positive reception is the manner in which Berkeley develops Pauline theology. The Pauline theology of grace. By setting this concept in the context of ancient notions of gift, he discerns six key ways in which gift and thus grace can be

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conveyed in Paul. And so we look forward to hearing from Doctor Barkley today as he helps us to understand a bit more about grace in Pauline theology. Please welcome to Austin Seminary for his very first time, Doctor Barkley. That's good. Thank you so much for your

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introduction, um, Professor Amer, and thank you to the president also for, uh, your welcome here. It's a huge pleasure for me to be here. I just flew into Austin late last night and my first of 4 stops in Texas before I head to Canada and then,

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and then home. So, it's a great, great pleasure to be here. I've heard of your seminary and it's wonderful to be on site. Here today on a typical British summer's day, uh, uh, and, uh, good to meet some, um, some Episcopalians as well. I had, I

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was for 20 years a Presbyterian and the rest of my life an Episcopalian, so I feel fully at home here in, in, in uh, in both environments. Is grace a free pass, is the title of what I want to talk about. Is grace a free pass?

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We all know that theme of grace, Amazing grace, how sweet a sound that saved a wretch like me, that. Doctrine, a theology of grace laden with emotion, emphasized particularly in the Protestant Reformation and since, a grace which is without preconditions, undeserved to the unlikely, the undeserving.

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Even me. Grace, we say is free. But I want to tease out with you a bit today what we mean by that. In what sense? Free in the sense we say of without payment, without dessert, without works, thus for everyone. But is it also free in

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another sense, sense that there are, as we say, no strings attached, no expectations, no commitments, no obligations. When you sign up for something, you know, you get these enticing offers, offers, don't you, on the on the internet, or it used to be in my youth, on

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the cereal packet. You know, free gift, free gift. And you'd say, oh, wonderful, I can get something for absolutely free. And then when you fill in the form or whatever, certainly nowadays on the internet, you fill in the form and you think, hang on a minute.

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When it says free, they also want my details, they also want, well it's free for a month I discover after a while, but after that it's not free. I've given away my bank details or my contact details, and all of a sudden it doesn't seem to

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be so free after all. So there's another sense of free, isn't there? A free without, on the one hand, free without precondition, undeserved, but there's another sense of free. Free without expectations, without further commitments, without obligations. Now, why do we find this second sense of free

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so attractive to us? But it's partly for theological reasons and partly for cultural reasons. Theologically. And it's particularly so in the Protestant and particularly so in the Lutheran tradition, I think. This er sense of freedom from rule, freedom from law, freedom from obligation. Paul, of course,

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made a lot of relatively negative comments about the law. You're no longer under the law, you're dead to that which held you captive. And this was taken in the Reformation and particularly, as I say in the Lutheran Reformation to mean that grace stands in opposition to

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any principle of law, rule, or duty. Grace against legalism, grace against obligation. Pa Was figured as against all of that, God is not a lawgiver, God is not a taskmaster threatening us. Requiring works from us, rather, God is a God of grace. We are, we are

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invited to believe in Christ. But what we have in Christ is for free, nothing more is required. And that particular strand of theological thinking has tied up in the modern era very much with our modern cultural desire. Uh, in the modern West for for autonomy. Individual

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autonomy. I want to be free to choose, free to control my own decisions. I want no externally imposed obligations, what we call heteronomy, the rule from outside. Freedom means freedom from external constraint. We're wary of obligations that might tie us down. We'd like to be masters

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of our own of our own destiny. Authentic means I did it my way. And after all, in this cultural mode, if God is gracious and forgiving, surely it wouldn't matter if I go astray. Indeed, it shouldn't matter, it, it, it not only doesn't, it doesn't matter,

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but it shouldn't matter. Surely grace would be no longer grace if it carried expectations or demands. You may know of a movement in the church called Hypergrace, have you come across Hypergrace? Hypergrace is a theology that says. If there are rules in the Christian life, it's

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no longer grace. Now, the thesis of this little talk, this little session is this. Yes, grace is free in one sense, but not in the other. Why is that so? Yes, grace is unconditioned. But not unconditional if we mean by that without expectation or commitment. I

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want to unpack with you then what we mean by free. So first, grace free of prior conditions. And this is absolutely central to the Christian gospel and its implications are vast. I take you back to the Gospels and to Paul. Paul, uh Jesus invites into the

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kingdom. The disreputable and the dubious. Uh, as I say, I'm a, I'm, uh, an Anglican or, um, uh, Episcopalian, and just recently we celebrated the Feast of Saint Matthew, didn't we? Yeah, I'm looking to my Episcopalian friends here. Maybe you, maybe you did in the Presbyterian

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liturgy as well, I don't know, but we had the Feast of Saint Matthew. And it struck me, I had to preach on that day, and it struck me again, what a remarkable thing the calling of Matthew is. Tax collector. Those are the swindlers, the cheats. Those

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are the extortioners of the ancient world, the, the local mafia. I came not to call the righteous but sinners, said Jesus, and Paul in his Gentile mission. Finds that God gives His Spirit to those with an appalling history of idolatry, with a terrible record of immorality.

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While we were weak, says Paul, at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly. God proves his love for us and that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. So this is what I call the incongruity of grace, the mismatch between the gift of

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God and the worth. Of the recipients. And it is a very strange gift in ancient terms because normally when you give gifts, and grace is another word for gift in Greek, when you give gifts, you give them discriminately, you give them to people who on one

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criterion or another are deserving or worthy of the gift by their age, by their education, by their ethnic status, by their um by their education or whatever. There is something very, very revolutionary and disturbing, subversive in this Christian message of a gift given without regard to

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worth. And you'd note I'm using the word worth and not just the word works, because I think although we've heard a lot in the Christian tradition about given without regard to works, which is absolutely right. There's a principle here bigger than just the things that you've

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done. Jesus invited to his meals not just sinners but also, as you know, the poor, the disabled, the sick, the marginal, the impure. And some Gentiles. When Paul talks about the gift of, of grace, he took, he says in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek,

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neither slave nor free, nor male and female. This is not just about moral worth, it's about any kind of worth. Now every culture and every social context creates its own hierarchies of worth. What an anthropologist would call your symbolic capital. No. If I was, if I

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was, uh, in the world of music, it would be my symbolic capital would be my ability to play an instrument or to sing. If I was in a beauty context, a contest, it would be my physical beauty. Fortunately, as you can see, I'm not in that,

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in that sphere of symbolic capital and, but I am in a different sphere of symbolic capital where academic credentials matter and where publications and all of that matter. But every sphere of life, when you think about it, has its own hierarchy of symbolic capital. It might

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be your ethnicity, it might be your gender, it might be. Your ancestry, it might be your wealth, it might be your talents, it might be your education. Every sphere has its own form of symbolic capital. It's what gives you honor, what gives you status, what gives

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you some degree of worth. And the fascinating thing is that grace operates without regard for worth. It goes to everybody because it doesn't take into account your symbolic capital. There are no conditions of worth. Which is one of the reasons why this is good news to

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those. Particularly in our generation, young people absolutely obsessed by their lack of worth or their feelings, whether, whether they have worth or not. This created in early Christianity, radical new possibilities, didn't it? Created possibilities for new kinds of community where you could cross the boundaries between

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ethnicities. Where you could give recognition and honor and respect, created by grace to those who might be, have no recognition or honor or respect because they were slaves, they were enslaved or they were uh female or whatever, they, wherever they were in the, in the social

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hierarchy, even if they were lower down the social hierarchy, they were not lower down the hierarchy of grace because grace is given without regard to worth. It's given to all. And you see how grace therefore completely remakes identity. Because the most important thing about you now.

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Is not your ethnicity or your nationality, or your gender or your education or your wealth or whatever. The most important thing, the thing indeed, the only thing that really matters is that you are a recipient of the grace of God in Christ. As Paul says, I

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have, I, I, I have been crucified with Christ, no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me, the life I now live, his new, his self is now remade. One of the many reasons I think why we should regard Christian nationalism as a as

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a significant danger. Because your nationality is not of the same, and it's not erased. But it's not the core of who you are, and it's not to be equated with or confused with who you are in Christ. So that's the liberating and the subversive truth. Of

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an unconditioned grace. It disregards all pri all prior conditions of worth. It recreates us, recreates us as in our identities and it creates new possibilities of community. But the second thing I want to say on the other side of this, as it turns out, the other

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side of the same coin is this, that grace is transformative. Now the important thing to get our heads around here is that grace is not a thing. It's not an object. We sometimes talk, rightly talk of grace as a gift, and it is, grace is a

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kind of gift, but not if you think of that as something you could wrap up in paper or any, don't reify it, objectify it, grace is a relationship. It's not that God, as it were, hands grace over to us like you might hand over uh a

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Christmas present to somebody and say, well, it's yours now, you do what you like with it. Grace is a relationship. It's a relationship, what, what's more, a relationship with God. Grace means God's favor, God's kindness, God's mercy, God's love. It's what draws us despite ourselves and

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with disregard, as I said, of who we are by. Our, our human criteria of worth, it draws us into relationship with God. It's a gift if you like. You might say the extraordinary claim of Christianity is that God has given us God's own self. That is

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mind blowing. Uh, but God in giving His Son. Gave God's own self in a sense, we have the presence of Christ, the life of, of God, the life of the Spirit. Now, salvation, you should think of, of course, as this, as God drawing us to our

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own good. To our fulfillment, to our completion, to our restoration, to be the very best version of ourselves. But God does that by drawing us into participation. In God's own goodness. As we come to share as much as creatures can come to share in God's own

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life and fullness and character. I've come to think that participation, just a, a word that's there in the Reformation, if you know Luther and you know Calvin, as you do, you'll know that they do talk about this, about being wrapped up as it were, within Christ.

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Joined with Christ, union with Christ is the language that Calvin would often use in, in this connection. Uh, but it's a very important theme also in the, in, in, in, in the Eastern uh theological tradition. The notion of participation in Christ, uh in God's own life,

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God's own fullness, to the degree that creatures can, which is a limited degree. But nonetheless real. So God doesn't give us a gift object, as it were, and step back and say, well, here's some grace, now you can do what you like with it. That would

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not be grace, would it? Because it would leave us as we are in our broken and spoiled state. That's why I think it's really important to think of forgiveness as something much more than just wiping the slate clean. It's a means to a restoration of a

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relationship. It's what Paul will call a reconciliation, it's interesting actually, Paul uses that word reconciliation rather more often than he uses the word forgiveness. Because forgiveness, you could, if you misunderstood it, regard it as just, oh, never mind, never mind, just carry on as you were

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before, let's just go back to zero and start again. Reconciliation is, do you see much more challenging, much more transformative? Oh, you mean you're drawing me into a relationship with you now? You're getting over what stood between us, and that can never leave you as you

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were before. I've died to the law, says Paul, in order that I might live to God. Living to God is a new kind of life. So, and this is the interesting thing and the really important thing, isn't it, about, about the, um, the message er of

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the gospel, God doesn't zap us, as it were. With grace As if we were, he overrode us or reprogrammed us. Or as it were, went into our software and just reorganized us neurally. By some external act or some external fiat. God wants us to be fulfilled

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by the reorientation of our wills, our own wills, our wills, our desires, our hopes, our emotions. To energize us so that we function as human beings as the best that we were designed to be. So, you see how grace is therefore necessarily transformative. Necessarily transformative, it

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cannot be conceived as just a thing passed over to us to do with it as we will. Or even a returning you to your status quo, Auntie. It's like, OK, have another go, start again. Because it draws us into the life of participation in Christ, being,

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as Paul would say, in Christ. It changes us So you might say, to go back to my initial, you know, you know, you're you're filling in your thing online, you're thinking, oh no, is there a catch in this? I would say yes, thank goodness there is.

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Yeah. Well, maybe a catch is the wrong word. Maybe think of it as a latch, as it were, it's a latch opened, a new, a door opens, a new beginning. Is possible and that will change us. It cannot but change us if it, if it's genuine,

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if it's real. Jesus did not say to Zacchaeus. No problem, Zacchaeus. You're forgiven now. Just carry on as you were before. Cheat away You're loved. God loves you, you're saved. Fine, Zacchaeus. No, when Jesus came into the presence of Zacchaeus. Zacchaeus was a changed man. Just

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as Matthew was, half of my goods I give to the poor, and in effect, he said, the other half I give back to all those whom I have defrauded. So this is not cheap grease, is it? Yeah. This is not, this is not just like, oh

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fine, come on a Sunday morning, be forgiven, and off you go again, do this, do as you were before. Paul did not say to the Gentiles, God died for us sinners, so carry on sinning. No problem. God is a God of forgiveness. He'll always cover over

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what you do. Rather, he said, and he was aware of this as a possible of that what I've just said as a possible misunderstanding of what he said because he had just said at the end of Romans 5, as you know. Uh, a sin abounded and

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grace super abounded. So you might think, oh, great, let's carry on sinning, and then Grace can cover even more of what I do. No, he says, at the very beginning of Romans 6, no. For goodness' sake, no, you're dead to sin. Baptism is a death to

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sin. You're, you're a different person, you've been given the Holy Spirit, you have a new way to live because you're now enveloped in. Tied into, drawn into the generosity, the love, the grace, and the justice of God. You're not under law, he says in Romans 6,

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and you're about to think, oh great, I'm not under anything now. No, he says, but you're under, you're under grace. It's an interesting phrase, isn't it, under grace. And in that chapter, Romans 6, he then goes on to use very, to us, very striking language of,

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well, you once were slaves of disobedience and slaves of unrighteousness, so now you are free to be slaves of righteousness. You've moved from one slavery to another. Sorry if that disappoints you guys, but that's the truth. Uh it's like, oh, my goodness. We're brought yet necessarily

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so brought into a new regime because there is in a sense for Paul, and this is important, there is no absolute freedom. There is no sphere, unlike our modern mirage of total autonomy, there is no sphere when you're not under the influence of something. And this

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is what Beverly Geventer has brought out so well in her, in, in her commentary on Romans, the sense of the powers. That Paul talks about the power of sin, sin is not just the things you do, it's the things that control you and, and, and, and

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that, and that determine you, and if you think you're living in a life of absolute freedom, more fool you. So, the question is, who, who, whose lord are you serving? Not, not, not, oh, I don't want to serve any lord, thank you very much, I want

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to do my own thing, who, whose lord are you serving? Uh, are you serving the Lord, the one true Lord? What is the baptism or confession in early Christianity? Is it I'm free to do what I like? No, it's Jesus is Lord. Now, what's crucial here

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is that the new way of life is not externally imposed, it's written on the heart. It's the internal work of the spirit in reshaping our goals, our desires, our emotions, our wills. That doesn't happen overnight. The change is not instant, there's a lot of repair work

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to do. In our lives. Just think of how deeply ingrainn, ingrained our habits and our wills, our desires. I think Paul's very interested in the desire. Where, where are your, what, what, what are your desires oriented to? And God has to remake us, remake our own

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agency and our own wills, not, it's not bypassing our agency, it's not like, well God, you do it and I'll just. That stand aside here, it's that God works within us in this fascinating way in which God energizes our wills. It's always God's energy that's the

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power to do anything, but we absorb as it were and resonate with that energy as our own wills and desires are remade. That change is not complete in this life. While we live in this body, we suffer not only weakness and mortality, of course, but also.

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We inhabit a mental framework which is distracted by priorities other than good. Other than God. The spirit desires against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit, says Paul. But that is not a static standoff, like, oh you're just always gonna be the same. So it's

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a tension in which the trajectory is always towards greater transformation by the spirit. Now do you see why, that is why Paul and Jesus talk about a future judgment. Because that is the point where it will be scrutinized. Whether that change is really taking place. It's

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a, it's a scrutiny, it says both Jesus and Paul in relation to the deeds, in relation to works, and the Protestant in us thinks, um, really? Is that not scary, is that not wrong? This is where it will be revealed where grace has been at work.

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Have we been, as Jesus would say, serving Jesus in the form of the poor and the sick, you know, this scenario in Matthew 25. Have we been, as Paul would put it, sewing to the spirit? These are not works by which we earn a second dose

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of grace, as it were, it's not like, well, we turn up at the judgment, say, have I done enough for a second installment of grace? Well, grace isn't a thing you can dose, you know, it's not an object. These are the works that demonstrate or do

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not demonstrate the change in our lives. That show that God's transformative grace has been somewhere at work. You know. So is grace a free gift? Well, yes, if that means without prior condition, undeserved, without any criteria of worth. And I think the more I think about

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that, the more radical I think that is. I think of that every time I, I'm as as I say, an Episcopalian, and I every time I go to the communion table. And Neil And receive the gift of God in Christ. And I realized at that point,

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that's such a precious moment for me and and precious for me, it happens every week, because that's when I remember what is really important about me is not that I'm Professor X. Or I've got this or that degree. Or that I'm this or that, my, by

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my ancestry, my ethnicity or whatever, the only thing that really matters for me here, and the only thing that really matters ultimately is I'm a child of God by grace. And so is the person kneeling next to me, hugely different as they are from me, and

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so is the person kneeling on the other side of me. We're all, you see how we're all absolutely on the same level at that point. Absolutely on the same level because our differences in symbolic capital. Don't matter here. And they shouldn't matter here. And that's why

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Paul was so scandalized. At the operation of the Lord's Supper in one in uh in in Corinth because there were people being humiliated there, not properly fed in the meal, and he said, you're, you are, you are humiliating them. You're this is a scandal because don't,

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and that, that's why he says, you remember in that context, he quotes the words of Jesus, he said, this is my body given for you. Who's the you? The you is everyone here, everyone here, for whom, as Paul puts it elsewhere, Christ died. That's the weak,

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and that's everybody. So that's where your worth comes from, the world, my ultimate worth comes because Christ died for me. That is, I say Very subversive Uh, so yes, in that sense, it is a grace given without prior condition, and that matters. But no if it

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means a kind of get out of jail free card, which means it carries no expectations of change. And it can't be that because it is transformative. It's only great if it is transformative. Because we need to be transformed, we can't be the people that God has

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designed us to be unless we are. So for God, for God to come to us in grace and say, I don't really care if you change your pattern of life anymore, is, is, is to be like that indulgent parent who says, well, I love you so

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much, I'm not going to bother er what you, how you do, and as we know that's very, very damaging ultimately. And This is not, however, the imposition of a burden of obligation or an arbitrary set of rules. It is being drawn by the spirit closer into

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the character and the life of God, entering the flow of God's grace. Entering the flow of God's grace. In generosity and kindness in integrity, honesty, justice. Our desires reshaped. To be in line with God's desires, there's not rules imposed on us, or duties imposed on us

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from the outside, this is an internal transformation, slowly our wills are realigned to God's will because that is what is best for us. It's spiraling down as it were, into the fullness of life that is always beyond what we're capable of knowing or receiving now. But

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what one day we will receive in full in the presence of Christ. Then we will be fully and finally enwrapped into every dimension of the transformative power of this grace, this life and, and love of God. Thank you very much for. Listening and I'm looking forward

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to your questions. Thank you. So as you begin to think about your questions, I invite you to pull out your phones, point them to the QR code, and start adding the questions you would like to ask Professor Barkley. And Allison is monitoring the ones that you

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type in. Here we go. So relationships can be good, broken, or even exploitative. How does Paul's theology guide us to a transformative relationship life. Um, Yes, um. Everything, er, you're right, relationship itself doesn't, um, um. Isn't necessarily a positive word. Uh, the question is what we're

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in relationship with and then, and the quality of, of, of that relationship. And I think, so I think the crucial thing here is that um. We're being drawn into a relationship that is both um for us and with us. You know, So, we know this relationship

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is a good relationship because um Christ died for us and that for us. Means that God knows us and knows what is best for us and is seeking our fulfillment. Um, but it also, as I say, a relationship that is with us in the sense that

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God is drawing us into. Um, The very uh. Towards as, let's say, the very core of God's own uh of God's own life and goodness. Uh, I think this is, you know, this, we, we kind of got used to it, but it always strikes me as

00:35:12.179 - 00:35:34.699

just very extraordinary the way Paul says. In Galatians 4, for instance, that, you know, you were once slaves, but you're now, you're now sons using the metaphor of, of adoption, um, and able to cry Abba Father. Uh, that sense of a, of a whole new. Um,

00:35:35.100 - 00:35:55.479

close and Christ-like. I mean, so your son's like Christ, it's drawn into the same kind of relationship with God that Christ has with God. Think, wow. Um, so that, uh, sense of the, this is not, we know this is not an exploitative relationship because it's for

00:35:55.479 - 00:36:16.419

us, it's for our good. Um, and we know that this is. Not a broken relationship because it's, it's, as it were, sealed by the spirit, um, and, and intended to be, to be therefore permanent. Yeah. I hope that slightly answers your question, but thank you, yeah.

00:36:19.689 - 00:36:39.379

OK, I have another one from El Profe. Your reading of Paul sounds very similar to Luther's thesis in Freedom of a Christian. What are the similarities and differences between these two arguments? Yes, thank you very much. Um, I, I mean, I, I do, I love Luther's

00:36:39.379 - 00:36:55.580

uh Freedom of a Christian, uh, um, and if you've not read it, um, let me encourage you to do so. It's, it's a it's a wonderful, a wonderful, uh, uh tract. Um, every, I think every theological student should read, should read Luther's, uh, uh Freedom of

00:36:55.580 - 00:37:13.560

a Christian, and his double thesis is, yes, we're free, we're free from judgment, we're free from guilt, we're free from sin. Uh, and, uh, yet, and then he, he uses Paul's, uh, motif that I'm free from all, I've made myself a slave to all. And he

00:37:13.560 - 00:37:31.649

said, we're precisely because we're free from anxiety about, about pleasing God, we can pour ourselves into service of others. I become Christ to others. And I think there is um um. Huge amount of value in that text, where I would differentiate myself just a little bit

00:37:31.649 - 00:37:55.580

from Luther, although there's a lot of Luther and that's only one tract, of course, is, is, is in this. Um, Luther was so concerned to emphasize to his contemporaries, um, the goodness and the grace of God, that, um, he found it harder to talk about, uh,

00:37:55.590 - 00:38:18.479

um, the justice and the um. that, as it were, framework of goodness, uh, which has its, which has its boundaries. In other words, he was in, he was so concerned to say God is, Christ is first a gift before he is, before he gives instructions, which

00:38:18.479 - 00:38:37.770

I think is right. He's first a gift. And he was so concerned that people's er religiosity had become focused so much on just keeping the instructions. That he found it harder to, to understand or to to factor into his theology, uh what I'm talking about here

00:38:37.770 - 00:39:03.229

in terms of the ways our own lives are reshaped by the spirit, and that involves. Doing things differently. Um, he, he, he, he developed a notion of which in Latin simulusus et peata means I'm, I'm the same time justified and a sinner. Uh, which in one

00:39:03.229 - 00:39:18.310

sense you might say is true, but it tended to leave the believer with a sense like, well, I can just carry on sinning then, because I'm, as long as I'm justified, my present pattern of life doesn't matter too much. Now he was horrified. Luther was horrified

00:39:18.310 - 00:39:38.300

when people. Took that to an extreme. And he thought the, the enthusiasts, as he called them, the radical reformers had gone way too far. But there was an element of his theology that kind of encouraged this, uh, because of there's a kind of one-sidedness to Luther

00:39:38.300 - 00:39:56.070

theology which was amazingly liberating and important in his day, but it left a kind of legacy. Um, um, which I think Lutherans have somewhat struggled to deal with. Calvin has a different way of, of, of dealing with this, and Calvin doesn't have quite that same vulnerabilities

00:39:56.070 - 00:40:19.379

as I think Lutheran theology has at this point. Because it, it could open the door to a kind of antinomianism, to a kind of feeling like, well. If I'm im Eustace at Picato, let me carry on being a sinner. And um. Luther, um. I think there

00:40:19.379 - 00:40:35.629

is that, that kind of danger that lurks around the age of Lutheran theology um ever since. Does it take seriously the fact that Paul really expects a change of life? And not just as, well, it would be nice if that happened, but like that is what

00:40:35.629 - 00:40:49.129

it is to live in the in the spirit. And if you don't, and the kind of warnings, if you don't live in the spirit, if you don't sow to the spirit, well you're sowing to the flesh and that's disastrous. So, I think, I, I don't know

00:40:49.129 - 00:41:05.129

who asked that question, but that's a, that's a very good question and as I say, there's a kind of, I have a slight anxiety over over Luther in, in that respect, much as I absolutely love reading Luther as well. Yeah. We have time for one more

00:41:05.129 - 00:41:25.169

question if anyone wants to post one. And I know some of the students are running off to their one o'clock classes. Well, they're not being any immediately popping up on Slido. Let's take a minute and thank Doctor Barkley for coming to Austin Seminary and for his

00:41:25.169 - 00:41:27.189

provocative lecture on Paul.