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Well, welcome today to our next edition in Cultivating Ideas. We are so happy today to be joined by the Reverend Doctor Sarah Allen. Many of you know, Sarah, I'm sure she is a marvelous

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person. She is a member of the staff here at Austin Seminary where she um directs our doctor of ministry program, our certificate in ministry program, our supervised practice of ministry with our m div students.

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She teaches in the Christian education department and she um oh directs our storytelling initiative. So somehow she found an hour in her time available here at the seminary to spend with us. I've known Sarah since she

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was a seminary student here in Austin Seminary and she earned her doctor of ministry here as well. She is a person who has been a pastor. She served for 14 years at First Presbyterian church here in

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Austin. And I knew her then as someone who worked with youth with Children with formation. So she brings a wealth of experience, not the least of which are her own three amazing Children. So,

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Sarah, we are delighted to have you here today to talk about naming what matters in faith formation. I see people who've been to several of these podcasts , the podcast. No, Melissa, it's a

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webinar. And for those of you who haven't, we will have a presentation by Sarah for about 20 to 30 minutes and then we'll have time for questions and answers. So write down your questions as they

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come to you and we'll have time to ask them later. Sarah, it's my pleasure to turn this over to you. Thanks, Melissa. It's a joy to see many familiar faces and some new ones

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. Um I'm really delighted to spend this time with you all. So as Melissa named, I have a vested interest in faith formation and congregations. Um While I serve here at the seminary, my primary

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intent in my time at the seminary is to equip students to be faithful ministers um in whatever place God places them after they leave us. And so it's really fun to see people like Rachel Watson who are

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one of our um newest graduates doing just that serving as a faithful pastor somewhere. So thank you, Melissa for the opportunity to share. I'm gonna share my screen and I apologize in advance for any technological

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glitches. Um I, you know, when you practice technology before you lead something, it works great and then when you practice it in real time, it doesn't want to do what it's supposed to do

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. So I beg your grace in advance. I'm sure y'all have all experienced that. Well, I want to take us through um naming what matters in faith formation and to frame our conversation. I want

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to begin with this familiar scripture to I hope all of us um from Deuteronomy. Hear o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord alone. You shall love the Lord, your God with all

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your heart, with all your soul and with all your might, keep these words that I am commanding you today in your heart. Recite them to your Children. Talk about them when you are at home

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and when you are away, when you lie down and when you rise, bind them as a sign on your hand, fix them as an emblem on your forehead, write them on the doorposts of your

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house and on your gates. And then we also hear in scripture, this command from Jesus. Jesus came and said to them, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go

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therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember Jesus says

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, I am with you always to the end of the age. But wait, there's more. Then the author of Hebrews tells us do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers for by doing so, some

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have entertained angels without knowing it. And still more , the Psalmist says, one generation commends your works to another, they tell of your mighty acts. So all throughout the scriptural witness, we know that

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we have these imperatives to teach and to share the faith with others, yes, with Children and with the next generation, but also with one another so that our lives might be transformed by the one who

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created redeems and sustains us. And yet we can see in even just these things that I picked out of scripture that there's so much that could matter and there's so much that in fact, does matter about

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sharing our Christian faith and practices with one another. So I want to ground this conversation and what matters most to me. And this was difficult for me to distill even though I'm inviting us to do this

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too. So I name before you that it is a challenge to name what matters most about faith formation . But as I thought about it, I decided that for me, at least today, it means

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equipping people to live as faithful followers of Jesus in daily life. OK. That's a great aspirational statement , right? We want to do that as ministers , as educators, as those who serve in seminaries

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. We want to equip people to live as faithful followers of Jesus in their daily living. But we need to ask so, what does that actually mean ? Well, I find a compelling model and teacher

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of faithful living most fully in the person of Jesus Christ who lived a life of prayer, of compassion , mercy, justice, and love of neighbor as self. It's important. In fact, it's essential

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to me that Children, youth and adults experience the redeeming love of Jesus through worship, through mission, through study, through relationships with others. So that faith formation as um some of you who have been

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my students who have been the students of David White will know this phrase as Maria Harris says, it , we are formed in all of the ways of Christian life in the church. The church is our

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curriculum. So then we know that this knowledge of who Jesus Jesus is. This knowledge of being formed in faith. It's not just through our minds. It's not simply being taught facts about scripture or about

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Christian history or about what our denomination believes, but rather it engages heart, soul, mind and strength as scriptural witness teaches us. Ok. So now I have this odd picture of pizza on a trash

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uh sewer and pizza at a fine dining establishment perhaps . And I know it's a little bit blurry, but it's a reminder to us that context deeply matters when we are thinking about faith formation, um and

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discipleship, when we are thinking about what matters to our particular faith community, how we in this particular portion of the body of Christ are going to live faithfully as Jesus disciples. So there's I came up

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with a non exhaustive list and I would love absolutely love to see in the chat, additional things that you think could matter. And before I go any further, I want to tell you that someone that

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has been helpful to me in this space of thinking about um naming what matters is a woman named Kendra Adachi. She is an author and a podcaster. She is not who you might expect a seminary faculty

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to bring up in a cultivating idea seminar. But here I am, she's called the Lazy Genius. OK. And the lazy genius is someone who is a genius about the things that matter and lazy about

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the things that don't. And when she's talking about being a lazy genius, her framework primarily is about things that matter in her life with her household. However, that framework was incredibly helpful to me and

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I keep spinning around. What does it mean to be a lazy genius about our faith? What does it mean to be a lazy genius pastor? What does it mean to be a lazy genius church?

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And so that's what kind of got me thinking about naming what matters in faith formation. All right. So we're tasked with forming the faith equipping people to live as a faithful follower of Jesus in a really

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complex world. And we come up with this great big list of all the things that could matter for our people. What else would you add? You're welcome. Also, I know this is a webinar

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, but we're a, a smaller group. You can also just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna decide that you can do this. You can just pop in and say it too. That won't bother me

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and I hope it doesn't bother Melissa. I named some things for you here. I'm not going to read them to you because you all can read them . But what else would you add if you're thinking

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about all the things that could possibly matter about forming people in Christian faith? What's missing from this list ? What else could matter? What about worship is that on there? It's not, it ought to

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be. Yeah. Thank you. Worship could and probably does matter. Yeah. What else? Love ? Karen says. Yes. Praying together says kings testimony. Yes. Thank you. Kelly creation care

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says Matthew. Hi Matthew. By the way, reverend Doctor Matthew being seen for exactly who God created you to be. Yeah. And I know that voice is Franks. So being seen for exactly who

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God created you to be. Acts of mercy and the list goes on and on and on and could . And in fact, has in my own life as pastor and leader feel overwhelming, right? We

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see this list and the one that you all are creating and the ones that, that we'll come up with later tonight that we add to this um this Joanne just added relationships. This could feel overwhelming.

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How could we in our particular charge? Whether that as is as educator, as pastor, as chaplain ? How can we ensure that all of this that could matter takes place in the life of our church

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. Well, then we need to ask the question . Oh, I'm sorry, I'm gonna go to the next one and I'll come back to that. Oh, I tried to do this fancy thing and

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that didn't work very well. So ask the questions , what could matter. We just did that. We came up with a list of all the things that could possibly matter. Well, thinking about our

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particular context. So for me, currently, my context is in equipping seminarians to be faithful ministers, educators and leaders. It for Christian service, your context is distinct from that. What does matter about

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the forming of that faith? So that list gets a little bit smaller. It doesn't mean that those other elements won't matter in the future or that they need to be let go of completely. But what

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we're naming is ok out of this huge list of things that could matter for this particular congregation. What does matter, how do we live into who we see God calling our community to be? And then

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the most difficult one, what matters most? Now you see why that context matters so much because where Rachel is now in Virginia, what matters most to her particular community of faith includes, yes, forming

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people to be faithful disciples of Jesus, but in a particular context with particular needs in her community, particular needs of her people. What they are gifted at what, where perhaps they have things that they

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need to learn more about the needs that are right around her. So, what matters most? And this is where, when I've led this exercise with congregations where the conversation really starts to get lively.

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Right? Because if we were to ask this question about what matters most say, I chose something real innocuous. Like what matters most about worship. Oh , great. Well, we're gonna get 8 million

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different ideas or at least as many as people that are on this screen plus three from the people that we bring with us in our own minds, right ? What matters most? So the lazy genius would

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argue that you need to start small. Don't ask the question, what matters most about worship first, perhaps ask the question, what matters most for my adult Bible study this fall. So that question,

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that was what matters most about faith formation becomes OK . I have this group of 15 people and I want to equip them to be faithful disciples of Jesus . So if I know I have this particular community

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, what matters most right now and then the most difficult for all of us is letting go, letting go of what's in our way. I don't know about you. But congregations of which I have been

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a part love to hold on to things even if they don't work anymore. Does that ring a bell with anyone? Because they've, they've been a part of our community for a long time because we've always

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done it that way. Or perhaps because that's the way we know to be faithful and it seems scary to step out and try something else. Ok. I love so in her second book, which is

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called The Lazy Genius Kitchen. I do not cook . I do own this book. Um, but I will admit to you that I do not use it as a cookbook. My husband might, I

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don't know he does the cooking but how to be a lazy genius. Five steps to lazy genius anything . And I just think these are so, I mean, they're not rocket science, but it's a

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helpful framing. So prioritize name what matters most and then he centralize the one that perhaps in congregation is the most challenging for us, get rid of what's in the way, let go of what's stopping you

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from focusing on what matters most. Again, it doesn't mean that that's gonna be let go of forever . But it does mean that in order to focus on the main thing, this needs to be set

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aside. And then she goes on to say, organize, put everything in its place, personalize, make it your own. So when you think about your Christian education or your faith formation curriculum, what

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makes it unique to your particular context. But that happens only after you've gotten rid of what's in the way and put everything in its place and then finally systematized, put, keep things in a flow.

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How are you going to continue to focus on what matters most in this particular season? So you could do this with your junk drawer, but you can also do this with faith formation. And that's where

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my brain just keeps returning to is what does it mean to really prioritize what matters most in a particular community so that we might live out this call of faithfulness. I see some of you that have um

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participated in our Doctor of Ministry program and um have even graduated from it like Matthew. And um I'm thinking about how you had to do some of this prioritizing and essentializing work as you served in a community

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of faith and wrote a 100 to 150 page um doctor of ministry project that, that sense of letting go of what could be in the way of what matters most. So we ask the questions and I

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would say that these questions could be asked individually, like you could sit down and think through yourself as an educator, as a pastor. Um these particular questions, but then bring those questions to stakeholders,

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right? Bring them to your Christian Education committee, to your session, to your vestry, to whatever that um group of leaders is in your particular congregation that also are charged with forming faith in this particular

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place. So what could matter? And this is when you just throw spaghetti against the wall, right ? This is when you're writing down everything that could possibly matter about forming the faith of this community.

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And then you do that distilling work. What does matter. And remember it's seasonal, what matters right now. We're not, we're not making this a huge um project. We're trying to keep it small

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and then what matters most, I recently had the privilege of serving um a, a local congregation in Austin on their all church retreat. And I played with this idea of lazy genius. And because they

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had been using a, a phrase in their sermon series recently called Peculiar Treasure. And I picked up on that phrase to ask the question, what makes this particular community of faith a peculiar treasure? And

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so I had them think about like what matters most about their particular community of faith when they're sharing about it with others, when they think about their life together, what makes them a peculiar treasure? And

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so I lift that up to you too as a way of thinking about it because each of us comes from communities that are peculiar in a lot of different ways, but peculiar also in that special way.

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Not, not just the weird, although we might want to emphasize that too. I don't know. And what matters the most. And then what's in our way, are there traditions or beliefs or ministries

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or ways of being together that we need to let go of in order to focus on what matters most . Is there something that we have been doing in our faith formation or Christian education courses or experiences together

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that is not currently allowing us to focus on what we're naming, right? It's giving us an opportunity to gather together, but perhaps it's not doing the work of equipping disciples for faithful service in a complex

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world. So what does it mean to let that go? And whenever we let something go in the church, we also must attend to the pastoral care needs that come alongside of letting go of something in

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the church, whether that's something seems small and innocuous to us or seems larger. Recognizing that perhaps is what matters most in the letting go. So thinking about who will be impacted when we sunset this ministry

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or let go of this particular way of being and how are we caring for that person, those people in this change? So I'd argue that that perhaps matters the most when you're thinking about needing to let

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something go. OK. So what matters most? I'm curious what's coming up for you when you think about what matters most in your particular place in your particular ministries. When you think about that question,

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what matters most in my particular context? What comes up for you? I think we, I love , I just love the phrase lazy genius. So I again, I give credit to Kendra A Dui

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. I think it's a brilliant phrase. Um, it contextualizes and particularizes our ministry needs. Right. So, um, I think about like teenagers and fashion and how, um, sometimes we, and

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, and, and even any of us, but , um, we become generic in the way that we dress even when it means like my daughter who , when she was in middle school would wear her

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hoodie in 100 degree weather, walking home because it was considered the middle school fashionable thing to do. But with her context being in the blazing Texas heat , that was an inappropriate like it didn't fit her

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needs. Right. So we think about yes, there are, there are general frameworks in printed curriculum for us in faith formation and we, we can faithfully and creatively use those. But when we,

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when we only look at them and say, ok , this is Cokesbury created this. Here we go . Um, then we fail to account for what is our particular communities need in this moment and how

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does this overlap or how does it get in the way of our particular need? And if it's getting in the way, then how can we adapt and tailor it or do we need to let it go

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to make way for something else? Being a lazy genius reduces overwhelm. If you're being lazy about things that don't matter, you're just letting them be like the laundry that just sits on the couch until it's

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time to deal with it. Right. It's ok that it's there you're being lazy about it because what matters more is spending time with the household that is present, right? So we're letting go of something

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, we're letting go of whatever that thing might be that was in our way, that's stopping us from attending to this particular need allows collaboration. I get to ask the question, Melissa, what matters most

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to you about the Bible study that we participate in Bill? What matters the most to you about your participation in this um In, in Sunday school, Rachel, what matters most to you and we collaborate

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with one another and decide as a group. Well , based on what matters most to us, here's how we're going to move forward. It lives in the season, whether that be a liturgical season,

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a cultural moment, um a particular year in the life of the church, if it's a special birthday or anniversary kind of year that the church is celebrating , if it's a transitional time for pastoral leadership,

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and then it provides opportunity for creativity and innovation because we are thinking through, we're distilling to what's most important and really making the main thing, the main thing and letting go of what stops us, hinders

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us from living into our particular call. OK. So I was thinking about advent and I'm sure y'all , many of you who are already in it, who are serving in congregations are way ahead of me

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on this one. I know that, but it was this liturgical season that is right on our heels . And so um when I was trying to think about how to lazy genius faith formation and make it

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. Small Advent is what came to mind. So again, what I did was just what could matter in the season of Advent. And I created a , again, non exhaustive from my brain list,

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the Christmas pageant, practicing faith at home. Hymn Advent, relighting, giving to others. Caroling the theological themes of advent, not Christmas Advent choir concert hanging of the greens. What kids wear to worship

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? The Christmas joy offering, learning the Christmas stories by heart, the Chris Mons on the tree, the living nativity, the 8 billion Christmas parties that every faith formation group decides that they need to have

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on the same day, all of these things could . And when we forget to ask what matters most they do matter, right? And so then our brains get overloaded with all that that we've decided does

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matter. But we haven't given priority to the one thing that matters most in this season. So I simply, this is all just from my brain. So if you were collaborating with a group, you

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would come up with different things that do matter. But I decided that in my pretend congregation that I'm serving in this ex exercise that I've noticed that folks know really well the themes of Christmas, they're very

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familiar with the story of jesus' birth and the gospels . They know what it means that Christ was born as Emanuel. What's missing, what I think matters is learning themes of advent. What does it mean

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that Christ will come again? What does it mean that Christ is coming? We have hymns that can teach us theological themes of Advent scriptures that we attend to an advent without overlooking them, pushing towards Christmas

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. I think that really matters in this particular moment for this particular congregation. We want to know what it means to live in the in between. I also think it matters that were equipping people for faith

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practices in their home during advent. And I want that to be across the board, whether there are Children in that household or if it's a single adult , I want the season of advent to be a

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time when people are deeply attending to reading scripture and to, to prayer at home. I think that that matters. I think, well, I know that it matters, but I think that that matters

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a lot in this particular congregation at this particular moment because we know that research tells us that one of the primary ways that we see lifelong faith in folks is practices with a household of faithful living that can

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be hugely important for Children and youth. Yes. And it's important that adults are focusing on faithful living practices at the home and then giving to others. So all these things do matter. Well, what

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matters most I decided that faith practices at home matter most because I'm convinced by the literature that says that that's one of the ways that we equip people for lifelong faith is by practicing faith at home. So

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what does that mean? Well, I think that some of those things that do matter could take place in this framework of faith practices at home. So creating ways for households to engage with advent hymns and

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scriptures at home. Excuse my dog, she's already ready for us to move to questions and answers. Um Our giving to others, it matters. But what I want to do instead is rather than making

00:31:15.390 - 00:31:32.900

it congregation centric. If we've determined that what matters most is faith practices at home, then how are we encouraging people to connect with their particular food pantry , clothing, closet giving tree in their context?

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Right? Like what are we doing to, to bring that back to a household practice of faith? And then perhaps the hardest one, we're just gonna do one on campus advent activity. If we were

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a group of educators and, and um collaborators in a, in a Christian ed meeting. This is when everybody goes. But what about carols and cookies ? And what about the Christmas pageant? And what

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about the da da da da? And what about this? And we have to have faith formation group and we have to have the Sunday school cookies. The kids really look forward to it. And then

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we remember and we say to each other. This is for a season and we've decided what matters most is equipping people for faith practices at home. So , in this season, we're providing more opportunities for

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household practices of faith. And we're focusing our pastor and educators energies on creating ways and making space for household practices of faith related to advent rather than Rachel knows what I'm talking about. Going, looking for

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the baby Jesus that you can't find from last year's nativity or the manger is what we would always lose at first press trying to find that before the Christmas budget takes place and making sure that enough people signed

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up for cookies for the cookies and carols event, right? We can bring that back another time. But we've decided this is what matters most in this particular season. So we're letting go and then we're

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attending to Sarah Allen's feelings about letting go of carols of cookies because it's her favorite thing that happens. And when are we gonna sing? Harp, the Herald Angel sings. We don't sing it on the

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second Sunday of Advent, right? We're gonna attend to those names. All right. What could matter what does matter what matters most in this season for this particular group of disciples who are seeking to live

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as faithful people. Thanks for listening to me. I'm more interested in listening to you all and hearing what you have to say and I'm gonna mute so that I can get my dog to stop barking at

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me. Thank you so much, Sarah. I'm , I now aspire to be a lazy genius. I'm, I'm convinced. Um, for questions we have, I think enough people here that it's fairly

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manageable, you can put your question in the chat if you'd like or you can, uh, speak , just raise your hand and Sarah, you can just call on folks. I do hope we can

00:34:22.890 - 00:34:36.270

see your face if you ask a question. I know some of you are on phones, et cetera . But um let's open it up for questions. You wanna answer William's question. Does could imply possible

00:34:36.400 - 00:34:55.670

. Yes, code implies all those things that are possible, that could matter, everything that could possibly matter. Brainstorming all of those great question, William . Well, I have a question, Sarah and

00:34:55.680 - 00:35:08.370

I'm gonna jump in. It's probably rude for the host to ask the first. Well, the second question, William, but um I have a colleague who has taught me that if you don't measure what

00:35:08.380 - 00:35:28.220

matters, what you measure becomes, what matters. And I kept thinking about that as you were talking and I'm wondering what thoughts you might have about how to frame, you know, what we learn from

00:35:28.230 - 00:35:38.730

trying this because I love the way it's seasonal. And you know, in your example, where you talked about advent and you said you, you were very clear in naming these are the things we're not

00:35:38.740 - 00:35:52.490

going to do and this is what we're gonna focus on So how does the congregation or the leadership uh learn from that experiment? You know, what can you learn? What are you trying to learn?

00:35:52.500 - 00:36:00.610

How are you going to, you know, pay attention to what happens when you do that to know ? Well, you know, I mean, I can think of several reasons you would want to do

00:36:00.620 - 00:36:10.350

that. But do you have any thoughts about that ? I think that's a wonderful question. And it's often one that gets overlooked in, at least in my experience in faith formation and in church life because

00:36:10.360 - 00:36:24.460

we're, we are immediately moving to the next, right? Like Advent has passed Christmas is here and now it's time for Lent. Um So taking that time, whether it's in your Christian education meeting,

00:36:24.630 - 00:36:39.440

whether it's in informal conversations that you have with um with stakeholders taking the time to reflect back? OK , we gave up this season, the Carol sing . I, I pretended like we were giving up

00:36:39.450 - 00:36:52.390

the Christmas pageant. We weren't, but we gave up the carols. Um We gave up, let's see, the Sunday school parties in favor of cultivating faith practices at home. So we need to ask

00:36:52.400 - 00:37:12.120

those households, what did you learn from that experience of these practices at home? Did you even have an opportunity to try them to create this in a way that was accessible for households that live in our

00:37:12.130 - 00:37:22.850

communities? And I, I, yeah, I think that I totally agree with you and I also would just want to put in a plug for maybe naming at the beginning the questions you're gonna ask at

00:37:22.860 - 00:37:32.070

the end. Yeah, that's a great Melissa. That's brilliant. That's not brilliant, but that's a good practice. And then, you know, you can figure out how are we gonna ask it?

00:37:32.080 - 00:37:45.030

And then even maybe, you know, in this , in the Sunday, you know, Sundays after Christmas, sometime you have a couple of those families come and tell their story of what happened. Because

00:37:45.040 - 00:37:57.430

in that way, you're giving a gift back to the whole congregation that some people that, that, you know, it just kind of finishes the loop . And I think when you're trying something different,

00:37:57.440 - 00:38:09.280

it's really important to set those patterns, uh that gains people that can cultivate trust in the process among people. Absolutely. Because if we're changing for change sake, then folks aren't going to trust us,

00:38:09.290 - 00:38:23.990

right? They're just gonna wonder what are they gonna take away next. But if we're reflecting back on what was learned because of where we focused, then they'll, they'll trust when we're making decisions and discerning

00:38:24.000 - 00:38:35.260

where God might be calling us in this next season to focus and what, what might need to be let go of. I greatly appreciate that, Melissa and I often look to you for things like that

00:38:35.270 - 00:38:50.770

because you're a very good innovator. Let's see. How do you manage competing needs in a congregation in a particular season? Great question, Carol. Well , they're gonna exist, right? And you as

00:38:50.780 - 00:39:05.810

one of the leaders get to help create that particular vision for that particular season, right? So I think it's, I think direct communication and care for people is incredibly important. I'm not what I'm not

00:39:05.820 - 00:39:19.160

saying is this is what you need to do for your whole. You could use this as a model for your whole congregation, right? But you could also take a particular class, a particular Christian formation

00:39:19.170 - 00:39:36.040

group and think through what could matter what does matter what matters most. There are always going to be competing needs. And so attending to um to folks hearts in the midst of that and also continuing to

00:39:36.050 - 00:39:50.040

name, we have said together that this is what matters most in this season. And we're gonna try this out for a season. I always love David Gambrill was one of my professors in the Doctor of

00:39:50.050 - 00:40:05.590

Ministry program and he did a class on the liturgical year and he um that's something that, that I always took to heart in pastoral ministry like when you want to make a shift or gonna use worship as

00:40:05.600 - 00:40:21.380

an example. Um You wanna have communion week in and week out in your congregation, but it's been done only quarterly, try it in a particular season that has an end and let people know that you're

00:40:21.390 - 00:40:32.780

just, you're experimenting with it for this particular season and then seeing going back to it and seeing, what was that, was that significant for us? Does that matter to us to have communion every week

00:40:32.790 - 00:40:45.980

? If so, were we ready to commit to extending that period? So, creating end points for people, I think is something else that helps with , um, competing needs because then they see it's

00:40:45.990 - 00:40:59.730

not, you're not simply making a directive for all time in all places. Right. Um Carol, I'd love to hear what your experience has been with those because I know that's, I mean, that

00:40:59.740 - 00:41:12.740

is very real, the competing needs in a particular and particularly in those High Holy Day seasons of, of Lent. Yes, but really advent and Christmas . So this is, do you want to hear

00:41:12.750 - 00:41:28.920

my thoughts now? Sure. Absolutely. Well, so we're, we're thinking a lot about now. Um kind of how do we prioritize kids and youth , how do we help them become more um engaged

00:41:28.930 - 00:41:45.510

in worship? Um How do we have them become more in, you know, active participants in worship and knowing that that's gonna mean noise and some busyness in worship for the older adults who may, some

00:41:45.520 - 00:41:58.460

of, some of whom may wish to see Children in worship but not necessarily hear Children in worship. So, um our staff is kind of wrestling with that right now and I, and I like the

00:41:58.470 - 00:42:15.740

idea of um yeah, communicating that this is just for this time period here is the end point and kind of reinforcing the learnings afterwards. So that people can see. Oh, well, this was valuable

00:42:15.190 - 00:42:24.390

. This was valuable because this happened for these folks . Um So I really, I really like what you've, what you've said, but it is, it's kind of a, it's a lot of negotiating

00:42:24.400 - 00:42:40.950

and a lot of, yeah, wrestling, it is a lot of negotiating and a lot of wrestling and I am deeply invested in Children and youth being active participants in worship and um have seen the incredible

00:42:40.960 - 00:42:59.100

benefits of intergenerational worship and recognize that there are some for whom that creates a little bit of discomfort. Um And so I think reminding those folks for whom it creates a little bit of discomfort, what they

00:42:59.110 - 00:43:15.960

are doing when they accommodate for Children and youth. Like what is the goal here? We're hoping that these Children and youth continue to participate in worship and liturgy see themselves as a as contributing members to our

00:43:15.970 - 00:43:29.650

community. And so yes, a little bit of noise in the sanctuary means that in 25 years, they may be the one sitting there going. Oh my goodness. Would why it just be a little

00:43:29.660 - 00:43:40.270

bit quieter while he wrestles those pages of his book , right? We want them to be involved in the life of worship for a lifetime. And so finding ways for them to contribute in the life stage

00:43:40.280 - 00:43:52.050

where they are right now matters to God and matters to us. Um You could get me on that soap box. All day, Carol, we could talk about that more. I'd love to. Um

00:43:52.060 - 00:44:13.960

, what else? Well, I, I'll say , um, the five steps reminds me of l twist in the soul of money and how this mindset of scarcity needs to be addressed and attended to in

00:44:13.970 - 00:44:29.310

order for someone to move into. What is it , um, sufficiency and, and the belief that within us there's enough already. So, thank you for this. This is good. Thanks, William

00:44:29.320 - 00:44:38.640

. Can you put that resource in the, the chat too? You said the soul of money? But I don't, I don't think I caught the author's name. Um Thank you. Yeah. Moving

00:44:38.650 - 00:45:06.410

from scarcity to abundance. Anything else, Sarah? I'm curious to hear a little bit more about the keeping things in a flow and especially when you're talking about doing some seasonal kinds of things that have a

00:45:06.420 - 00:45:20.110

beginning and a middle and an end and help me help me know how to do that. Yeah. Good question. So I think for Kendra and the lazy genius, she's naming like, how would you

00:45:20.120 - 00:45:36.560

continue to make what matters most the driving the driving force, right? And so um I was taking pieces of that work and applying it to something seasonal . But if we were to think about a vision

00:45:36.570 - 00:45:52.000

for the congregation kind of AAA broader um who, what is our particular identity as this community of faith , then what we'd want to do is continue to systematize that. How does that vision get shared across

00:45:52.880 - 00:46:09.090

the organization? How does what matters most continue to be? What guides us as we make decisions about curriculum, about um mission and service experiences about who we're attending to in, in the needs of our

00:46:09.100 - 00:46:20.160

community, all of those pieces. So I think , I think you're right. That might matter less if we're thinking of a um a project that has a beginning and an end or a season in the

00:46:20.170 - 00:46:34.080

life of the church. But if we were thinking , OK, we think that for faith formation, what matters most is in my uh children's ministry is that every child knows that they are a beloved child

00:46:34.090 - 00:46:47.030

of God and they belong here. Well, how does that thread move throughout all of our children's ministry forever and ever? Right? How do we keep coming back to that particular um peace? I'm glad

00:46:47.040 - 00:47:21.870

you asked that. Thank you. Are there questions , comments. Stop the professor. I see Kelly's hand. Go ahead, Kelly. So I like the language of this because not for uh I'm thinking

00:47:21.910 - 00:47:37.340

a little bit bigger than just a season. Um We're in the middle of working with ministry architects to kind of Recraft and determine where we need to go in our family, ministries, our Children and youth

00:47:37.680 - 00:47:53.380

. Um We, we've been struggling for a couple of years. Uh something that has always defined our church and was very successful for many, many years . Um in the last 5 to 8 years has

00:47:54.270 - 00:48:07.440

lost its efficacy. And so there are some uh voices who have been saying for years, we need to do things a little differently. We need to look at this and, and be honest with what

00:48:07.450 - 00:48:17.800

isn't, what isn't working. Um And then there are competing voices of, but we've always been known as this, right. You know, we all understand that. Um And so I can see the

00:48:19.090 - 00:48:37.400

the benefit of using this language to really filter down um the talking points and the conversation and it does seem to help filter out some extraneous noise and really cuts to the heart of what are we here for

00:48:38.240 - 00:48:47.060

? Yes, there are a lot of things that have mattered and still could matter. But I, I, I like the language of this and so I appreciate this. This is extremely timely. So

00:48:47.070 - 00:48:59.990

, thank you. Oh, good, Kelly. Yeah, I imagine the others resonate with that. I know I have had similar experiences and congregations. It's really tough to make a change. It's tough

00:49:00.000 - 00:49:13.770

to be in that transitional space. Thank you for naming that. And uh when you talk about letting go, what, what can you say about the internal work of the leader that they have to do

00:49:13.780 - 00:49:24.760

uh inside themselves to, you know, I don't know, escape their own blind spots to not say , well, we're gonna let go of everything except this because this is really what I like best.

00:49:24.770 - 00:49:36.460

I mean, you know, and, and uh to be able to be that, I guess this phrase is still used like that non anxious presence in the midst of change that's hurting other people. How

00:49:36.470 - 00:49:47.880

do we do that? Melissa. That's a great question. I think, I mean, I think I learned from Berne Brown in some of that. Um because she really speaks about, if you don't

00:49:47.890 - 00:49:59.320

focus on the feelings, you're gonna navigate, you're gonna do a lot of work. Uh I can't remember how she says it, but unpacking bad behavior inside of the organization. So like, you know

00:49:59.330 - 00:50:12.270

, resentment and hurt and all of those different pieces are, are going to exist if we're not attending to feelings and you named, you have to also attend to the leaders feeling. It's like if I've

00:50:12.280 - 00:50:25.410

collaborated with you all and I trust your voices and we as a community have decided this is what matters most. But if I would have decided on something different on my own, right? If I weren't

00:50:25.420 - 00:50:44.350

collaborating with you, then I need to find a s a safe place to let that go. I need to be in conversation with my therapist or my spiritual director. Um my clergy cohort about the fact

00:50:44.360 - 00:50:59.130

that I know this is what matters most for this congregation, but I would prefer to be doing this work, but to keep, to maintain, I mean, we've decided as community, this is where

00:50:59.140 - 00:51:10.500

we know God to be leading us and sometimes God leads us where we're a little bit tense about what that change might mean. So I think, I think the conversation with a trusted other is, is

00:51:10.510 - 00:51:22.220

huge in those moments and have been instrumental in my own times of, of feeling that sense of, well, I would have picked the Christmas pageant over the whatever or, you know, even I'm picking

00:51:22.230 - 00:51:38.130

a silly example. But, um, in times of places where I could be anxious and have been anxious talking to a trusted other about why we've made this decision and letting go of, of what it

00:51:38.140 - 00:51:52.640

is inside of me. That's, um, that continues to come up. Bye Karen. I'm glad you're attending to grandchildren things. And then Rachel had a question, Sarah, if you wanna look at

00:51:52.650 - 00:52:06.130

that in the chat and respond, maybe Rachel says , wondering how you hold the stories of what is being put aside. How do you share these stories to get to the central reason why we did it

00:52:06.140 - 00:52:16.370

in the first place? And how do you hold the memories tied up in those traditions? Is there a value and ritual of putting? Is there a value in a ritual of putting aside older traditions?

00:52:16.380 - 00:52:35.710

If only for a season, Cash Rachel? That's a wonderful question. I do think that, that , um, by Jeanie, I do think that that conversation around a ritual for letting go of things

00:52:35.720 - 00:52:51.800

is important. I wonder, I have not participated in one, but I wonder what it would look like to have a time of remembering what stories had mattered to us and then moving into this new chapter

00:52:51.930 - 00:53:02.580

. Um I think you also point to the pastoral attentiveness. You know, we have both the burden and the privilege as pastors of holding other people's stories , the ones that we don't want and the ones

00:53:02.590 - 00:53:16.210

that we do. Right. So, um attending a making sure folks know, not just you can come to my office and tell me anything but making sure that they know in cultivating trust kind of ways

00:53:16.220 - 00:53:31.940

that you are someone who will honor that story and recognize that this change is, is feeling overwhelming to them, or this change is making them sad and , um, naming with them what that looks like

00:53:31.950 - 00:53:45.720

and then what also might come in this new, in this new space. And Rachel, you asked the question and I, I know you, you are very good at that. Um You're very good

00:53:45.730 - 00:54:00.230

at honoring people's stories. So if anyone could create a liturgy around, um, around that letting go piece, I it would be you. Um, you know, it makes me think about my Christmas

00:54:00.240 - 00:54:14.830

decorations and I have, I won't tell you how many bins of Christmas decorations I have. And I remember the year when it dawned on me, I don't have to put all these out every year.

00:54:15.300 - 00:54:27.340

That's what my mother did. She put everything out every year, same place you know, big Santa on the back door. And uh now I actually enjoy them more because uh just choose the things that

00:54:27.350 - 00:54:39.420

, that year feel spark joy in me. And it makes me imagine Rachel, you know, a night of storytelling and recording or writing those stories and packing them in a box that then you keep,

00:54:39.430 - 00:54:52.550

you know, in the church. And so some years you get that box out and some years you say you don't. That's a really cool idea. I love that. I'm thinking of when uh we

00:54:52.560 - 00:55:01.140

put, we pack away the hallelujahs during lent, right? And we uh we would put them in a big gold box and we'd put them in the sanctuary somewhere and I know churches that bury them.

00:55:01.150 - 00:55:12.360

But then, you know, it's, it's there , we're reminded of it, but it's not what matters most in this particular season and then it comes out because it, our hallelujahs do matter most when

00:55:12.370 - 00:55:24.500

we get to Easter. So um that's a we could create, pay those parable boxes, the gold wrapped boxes for our stories to honor. This could be really fun. Um There may be another webinar

00:55:24.510 - 00:55:37.520

in our future. I'm gonna let Rachel lead that one. She's gonna come up with the, they , they're gonna come up with the creative liturgy around that in all your spare time as a new associate

00:55:37.530 - 00:55:53.280

pastor. Well, are there any other questions or comments? We're getting close to the end of our hour. Well, thank you so, so much , Sarah. We are, we did record this

00:55:53.290 - 00:56:07.330

and we will edit it and make it available to all of you. And as it is every week , I'm so encouraged to look around this screen and see the people who are spending their life pouring out

00:56:07.340 - 00:56:22.150

their life for the sake of the gospel and this and God's church. So thank you for what you do in the world. Our next installment will be on November 16th and it will be on gratitude practices

00:56:22.160 - 00:56:36.260

and I will be in the role of presenter and I'm recruiting a guest host so I don't have to host myself and uh we look forward to seeing any of you there. All right, many blessings.