00:00:03.070 - 00:00:22.050

And you have this m also whichever one you, there's a, there's a cup of water here so you can be unless you want to use your good afternoon, everyone. The settles lectures in mission and

00:00:22.060 - 00:00:44.100

evangelism at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary were established in 1947 by Mrs W R settles of Big Spring, Texas this year, we're pleased to welcome as settle lecturer , Doctor El Boba, the Harry and Hazel Chair

00:00:44.110 - 00:01:04.430

in Christian Theology and Professor of Religion at Rice University as well as faculty associate at college. Dr Baba combines his teaching of African religions and his research in theology and philosophy of religion. Working with African philosophical

00:01:04.440 - 00:01:23.500

ideas and continental philosophy. He is the author of four books, three edited books and has authored 60 peer reviewed essays and book chapters. Among his writings are the wildly Blackwell companion to African religions and the

00:01:23.510 - 00:01:38.440

Routledge companion to Christianity in Africa. Now, as we prepare to hear Doctor Baba's lecture, I would ask us as a community to take a moment to hold in prayer, a dear friend and colleague of

00:01:38.450 - 00:01:51.970

Doctor Bamba and his family, the honorable Cyprian of V who is ailing and doing quite poorly in Dallas . Doctor Doctor Boba stops to, to check on him on his way here. So before he begins

00:01:51.980 - 00:02:09.070

, can we just take a moment to pray gracious God once more? We come before you asking your mercy and asking your healing presence, we lift up to you, our brother, Doctor Cyprian, we

00:02:09.080 - 00:02:27.060

ask your healing grace and your healing presence with him as he navigates through illness and disease, bless him and his family be with those who are caring for him, surround him with your peace, touch him

00:02:27.070 - 00:02:40.200

with your healing. Fill him with your sense that in life and in death and in life after death , we belong to you and in all things, you are our God and you have us in your

00:02:40.210 - 00:02:59.030

hand. Now we ask your blessing on the food that we are eating and on doctor as he begins his lecture, we pray these mercies through Jesus Christ , our Lord Amen. Welcome to Austin Seminary doctor

00:03:02.910 - 00:03:25.350

, right? Uh Deans are wonderful people. They , they always find a way of making one feel at home. And uh in addition to all of the hard work that they do, uh it is

00:03:25.360 - 00:03:46.930

just wonderful to work with a dean such as you have here at Austin Seminary. Uh I want to thank the legacy of the settles family for supporting theological education and missions around the world. Uh One of

00:03:46.940 - 00:04:05.690

the blessings that I think touched me really, really very clearly when I first came to the United States in 1985 was to recognize how much individuals and families like this do, especially for theological education. And

00:04:05.700 - 00:04:21.210

uh it is, it is good to be here . And uh see Professor Jensen again. We worked together when we were relocating uh the journal Religious Studies Review to Rice University and he has been a constant

00:04:21.220 - 00:04:39.690

uh presence with that journal. And uh we are very, very grateful. Uh my colleague, Professor Pin is the managing editor now and continues to do a very uh good job. Today I am talking

00:04:39.700 - 00:05:00.290

about the political issue in Cameroon. Uh I I come to this from a background of political theology, but before I even say anything, it is good to just let you know what the situation is in

00:05:00.300 - 00:05:17.820

the 19 sixties when Africa was transitioning from colonial rule , Cameroon got independence from France and Britain. The reason they got independence from France and Britain is that during colonial rule and especially during World War two,

00:05:18.770 - 00:05:36.770

uh Africa was also a theater of that war and French troops occupied the larger section of Cameroon which would later be called East Cameroon. Then British troops occupied the English part of Cameroon, the west part of

00:05:36.780 - 00:05:53.960

Cameroon, which is much smaller and it would then be called West Cameroon. But Britain annexed part of their territory to Nigeria and we were governed from Lagos at the time of independence. In the 19 sixties

00:05:54.480 - 00:06:13.790

, the United Nations uh gave us a referendum. Were we going to gain independence by joining with the Republic of Nigeria or joining the Republic of Cameroon? It was a hotly contested election period. And as

00:06:13.800 - 00:06:30.940

a small boy, I remember my uncles moving up and down campaigning, people singing. Uh And uh eventually that plebiscite decided that we will gain independence by joining the Republic of Cameroon. So we joined Cameroon

00:06:31.120 - 00:06:50.020

. The country was divided in, was called the Federal Republic of Cameroon with headquarters in and then the headquarters of the English speaking sector was in the old colonial uh uh headquarters of both the German and British

00:06:50.030 - 00:07:10.100

administration in Cameroon. Then we have had only one president. We have had only one president for a very long time. So all of a sudden he decided to retire, but before retiring had done so

00:07:10.110 - 00:07:31.200

many, many things. One he decided at one point to amend the constitution and establish what was called the United Republic of Cameroon. And so the United Republic of Cameroon then had several regions. Uh They

00:07:31.210 - 00:07:47.420

were governed by governors, but we still had one legislative body that met in the National Assembly. And later on a Senate was established. Then he just stunned the world by deciding that he was retiring.

00:07:47.430 - 00:08:03.630

And then he announced in that same speech that his constitutional successor who was Prime Minister at the time, Paul Beer would become the president. Uh The next morning, there was a run on the bank because

00:08:03.640 - 00:08:15.710

uh on the banks in Cameroon because the Common Duke was that he just never retired. He had been there from the beginning and um no, nobody, nobody could challenge him. And uh yes, true

00:08:15.720 - 00:08:30.930

enough. The next day, the current president who has been there now for 40 some years, uh took the oath of office in a nice really double breasted suit. The next day, all of the

00:08:31.480 - 00:08:46.540

in public service change. It used to be the big gowns uh to look like president. Now in Cameroon, everybody had a double breasted suit and he charmed the nation by talking about the changes he wanted

00:08:46.550 - 00:09:05.520

to do. At that time, there was also then what was called an anglophone problem. The anglophone problem then is made up of all of the complaints of all of the things which the small speaking English

00:09:05.530 - 00:09:24.560

sector felt that the national government was not doing. And the new president pledged to take care of all of that. And then a movement began, it was called the Southern Cameroonian movement. What they were

00:09:24.570 - 00:09:45.000

trying to do was to negotiate renegotiate the terms of the union because they felt that both Ajo and President Bia had breached and done away with that unitary system of government. But what ensued was that at some

00:09:45.010 - 00:10:03.500

point in the nineties, the president declared that Cameroon was uh a united country indivisible, doing away with that distinction which erase of course, then the long history of the anglophone people. That is the crux

00:10:03.510 - 00:10:18.940

of the problem that has led to the Civil war in Cameroon today. The most latest uh the, the, the, the, the, the current war actually begins in 2016 when teachers and lawyers in

00:10:18.950 - 00:10:39.650

the English speaking part of the country began protesting, what were they protesting about? The teachers argued that they had transferred many French speaking teachers into the English speaking sector who didn't understand English and most of them

00:10:39.660 - 00:10:56.930

taught the stem disciplines. And for that reason, the anglophone Children were being deprived of a just education . That was the complaint of the teachers. Number two, the lawyers were striking because we have also

00:10:56.940 - 00:11:13.950

a dual legal system. And uh the, the lawyers argued that in the National School of Administration and magistracy in the francophone students don't take the English Common law tradition which we are familiar with when we were

00:11:13.960 - 00:11:28.910

with Nigeria, when we were part of Britain, it is part of the Anglophone legal system. So when those juries are brought to the English speaking side and made presidents of courts and so forth, they

00:11:28.920 - 00:11:39.560

issue decisions on a legal system or on the basis of a legal system which they did that. And it's not that the English speaking side is making this up. That's part of the, the historical mandate

00:11:39.590 - 00:11:58.530

of the country. Very soon. The strike moved into protest. People were out on the street protesting and what this led to is that the long anglophone movement which has been struggling for independence, then stepped

00:11:58.540 - 00:12:18.600

in and in 2016 declared independence and called the country . The Republic of Amazonia. Ambazonia comes from uh the coastal area of the English speaking, there was a very historic site where ships could uh uh could

00:12:18.610 - 00:12:33.540

dock without difficulties. And the area is called Ambas Bay. That's where the name Ambazonia comes from very quickly. It got ugly. The president was out of the country when he arrived. He challenged that

00:12:33.550 - 00:12:54.580

decision and then some claim that he declared war on the Anglophone uh people and the a the Anglophones. Then the Amazonians who declared war or who took up arms began fighting, began arming themselves and defending their

00:12:54.590 - 00:13:15.120

territory and working to restore Amazonia now as a different country. That is the situation from 2016. It's been a very brutal war, are brutal in many , many ways. Uh I think the thing to

00:13:15.130 - 00:13:33.660

note really is that most of the fighting takes place on the anglophone side. And some who profess to be fighting for independence actually are the ones who do all the ambush, all of the bombings, all

00:13:33.670 - 00:13:48.680

of the attacks and so forth. And uh there are those who argue they ought to take the war to the enemy and the enemy is a larger partner . And then those on the president's side say,

00:13:48.690 - 00:14:05.180

look, we are not against you, we are not attacking you. If anything, the majority of the people have escaped the English speaking side of the country and gone into the French zone for safety because

00:14:05.190 - 00:14:24.120

the Ambazonia fighters have been very, very brutal. Uh The whole world remembers uh the uh Valentine Day massacres in my village when government troops went into that village because they suspected that the Amber fighters were there

00:14:24.490 - 00:14:39.650

. And in the end, they murdered 18 people including Children, pregnant women and, and so forth . Uh We woke up to that tragedy uh that morning and I called the chief of the village and

00:14:39.660 - 00:14:54.860

uh he gave us an update. Uh Eventually the Cameroon group here. Uh the group uh ethnic group here in the United States was able to raise funds and provide medical treatment at uh Baptist Health Services.

00:14:56.690 - 00:15:13.720

So the war continues, there is a stalemate. Uh None of the international actors that usually uh dig into these things have said anything. Our president continues to be active. He was received at the White

00:15:13.730 - 00:15:28.380

House when President Biden received some African heads of States . And I do not know if they had a conversation but the White House never made a statement on that. Uh Instead uh the State Department and other

00:15:28.390 - 00:15:48.360

people in Washington DC have charged some members uh Cameroon immigrants in the United States for laundering arms illegally to provide uh support for the civil war that is going on in Cameroon. That is the complexity, total

00:15:48.370 - 00:16:06.340

silence. Nobody knows what is happening. Uh France is not speaking up, Nigeria that we would have expected would take the lead because Nigeria is a huge country. Let's watch Nigeria. Nigeria is going to

00:16:06.350 - 00:16:22.040

do great things in the future. Uh When the leaders of the Ambazonia movement fled and went into Nigeria instead, Nigeria made a deal with the government of Cameroon and all of those leaders were put on a

00:16:22.050 - 00:16:33.360

plane and flown back to ya and they remain in jail. So what, what, what, what I, what I'm trying to say is that this is a very, very complex uh uh issue.

00:16:34.360 - 00:16:48.610

Uh If it, if it were on the table and debates and conferences and so forth, that's the way politics works. Uh people meet, people, talk, people go and debate these issues, but

00:16:48.620 - 00:17:02.150

people are dying, people are dying. Uh At one point, our region of the country was cut off from the rest of the country. And uh there were a lot of deaths because that cut us

00:17:02.160 - 00:17:18.010

from what our tertiary health in Cameroon is actually not provided by the government, but it's provided by uh the hospitals Baptist missionaries started. And those, those hospitals are the real uh place where to go if

00:17:18.020 - 00:17:30.710

you fall ill in Cameroon. So we were cut off. And as a result, our national group here in the United States, my wife is the president. Uh we worked so hard to raise money

00:17:30.010 - 00:17:48.710

to request the Baptist to build a hospital in our region. There is no part of the Cameroon economy , no part of our family life or anything has been spared. The brutality of what is going on

00:17:48.720 - 00:18:03.160

in Cameroon today. And yet I think the world is silent. I can understand why the world is silent because they just don't want another country to break up and all of that. But it is not

00:18:03.170 - 00:18:18.680

as easy to say, ok, you just stop fighting. Somebody needs to step up to the plate and invite these two parties even if it is going to take uh promoting sanctions or anything and bring it

00:18:18.690 - 00:18:33.700

to the table. Does religion have anything to do in this? With all of this? I think at, at different levels, some of the most articulate African theologians, especially in the Francophone zone were

00:18:33.710 - 00:18:51.580

Cameroon and theologians. Uh Most people read the work of Jean Marc Ella who was uh a missionary to the northern part of Cam uh Cameroon in a country that boasts itself for great agriculture was the first to

00:18:51.590 - 00:19:10.400

tell the world that the granary is empty. There is no food and he worked with the poor in the northern part of Cameroon to provide service to the people. There is who was also francophone theologian who

00:19:10.410 - 00:19:23.740

actually was murdered, uh people point fingers and so forth. I I cannot point any fingers because I think these things depend on very, very careful evidence and we don't have that kind of careful evidence to

00:19:23.750 - 00:19:34.630

begin to make a statement. But there have been illusions in those days, they pointed it to the regime. But again, for the record, I do not know that angel was murdered, leading,

00:19:34.640 - 00:19:57.160

leading African theologian. Uh Then there is Fabian Fabian Bulaga died recently. Uh His last major work was to focus on Cameroon. And he actually really argued that the state had failed the people of Cameroon.

00:19:57.170 - 00:20:12.950

In fact, the title uh in French, rough translation in English is Transitional Democracy in Cameroon. And a really an extensive study which looked in all of the records, all of the daily newspapers, all

00:20:12.960 - 00:20:33.000

of the broadcast, everything Fabian was uh first rate researcher. He concluded that the state had failed and no transitional democracy had taken place in in Cameroon. So these theologians have spoken probably the major anglo theologian

00:20:33.010 - 00:20:48.290

who has spoken on these issues in Cameroon was the late uh Christian cardinal to who was uh archbishop of the diocese of Dual uh the first uh member of the Catholic clergy in Cameroon who was elected to the

00:20:48.300 - 00:21:04.670

College of Cardinals. He has written two books on Cameroon and he has argued very clearly in those two books that the regimes of the first president and the current president have failed the people of Cameroon. They

00:21:04.680 - 00:21:22.760

have not delivered in terms of justice, they have not delivered all the things that they could do because the country is potentially very wealthy, potentially very wealthy and everybody has always looked to Cameroon. I mean

00:21:22.840 - 00:21:37.180

, they have had, ironically, these two leaders have had very influential voices that is a country that is respected internationally. Uh The, uh, they , they have had two heads of the African Union

00:21:37.360 - 00:21:52.080

, which is unusual for a country of its size . But, uh, like these major theologians have argued, uh the leaders have not done a good job as they could do. So, here we

00:21:52.090 - 00:22:12.910

are, uh, there are several things that drives uh my consideration here today. One, I, I think the war is just not correct for the simple reason that we have not exhausted all of the

00:22:12.920 - 00:22:30.250

things that we could do in order to be able to uh resolve this. Uh this is a constitutional crisis. What needs to happen is that these things ought to be debated throughout the national territory and the

00:22:30.260 - 00:22:48.780

National Assembly and the Senate of Cameroon pass laws which would allow for the state functionaries and so forth to function. According to those. Number two, I think what needs to happen is to really let those

00:22:48.790 - 00:23:07.510

institutions govern. Cameroon has probably one of the strongest presidential systems in the world. Everything leads up to the president. The fear now is you have a president who was very well schooled, who knows the

00:23:07.520 - 00:23:25.440

ropes, who has been in almost every part of the system? What if he goes away? What if he goes away? And so I think a better way of dealing with that is not ask what

00:23:25.450 - 00:23:41.790

if he goes away or lament is to be able to go through the representatives of the people and build a constitutional uh fortress that can withstand all of these challenges. These challenges, yes, it is there

00:23:42.360 - 00:24:00.710

. But I think can it be reworked, especially in light of the current challenges? What then needs to happen then is to go back and ask the question if we are a united country and everybody belongs

00:24:00.320 - 00:24:18.510

, why can't we have local rule? In other words, uh the senior divisional officers which are equivalent to our county judges here in the state, let them be elected. They should not be appointed by

00:24:18.520 - 00:24:36.630

presidential decree. Uh You go beyond that and go to the provinces. The governors who govern in those places let be then be elected through universal suffrage. They should not be appointed by presidential decree and then

00:24:36.640 - 00:24:52.720

we can then ask questions about the size of government . There are currently over 60 cabinet positions in Cameroon . In addition to other positions where when they are appointed, they will also have the subtitle with the

00:24:52.730 - 00:25:10.170

rank of minister. So the person is so you have created a ministerial position, a whole bureaucracy. These are things that I think uh should be placed on the table so that we can have a conversation

00:25:10.670 - 00:25:25.910

about the nature of the state in which we want to establish and the future of that uh state. Nothing is happening because there is no dialogue those leaders who declared independence were brought from Nigeria, they're still

00:25:25.920 - 00:25:45.680

languishing in jail. So speaking, as a Christian theologian, what, what does one say in this situation? I think we have learned from all over the world, particularly in Africa towards the end of

00:25:45.690 - 00:26:03.970

the Liberation Movement. Uh The best well known, of course is South Africa and South Africa survived because of that ability to talk with. Even somebody you consider your enemy. And it was a grassroots effort

00:26:04.450 - 00:26:15.150

. It was something that involved people. I have , I have to tell you the story. Uh my urologist in Houston, when I was first referred to him some 20 years ago, uh when I

00:26:15.160 - 00:26:26.990

walked into his office and sat down, he came in and said, what are you working on? Uh That's a very typical academic question. I said , oh, I just uh finished a book.

00:26:26.000 - 00:26:36.190

He said, what is the title? I said , The Dialectics of Transformation in Africa. So he sits down and he says, uh is there any hope? I I said, well, yeah,

00:26:36.200 - 00:26:48.890

there's a lot of hope South Africa has gone through a transition. Things are looking good. The other African countries will learn from it. And in that process, religion played the Christian church, uh the

00:26:48.900 - 00:27:03.820

Muslims in South Africa, all of them interpreted the text and the word of God as a God of justice. And I think that is going to hold on. Then he looks at me and he said

00:27:03.830 - 00:27:12.710

, what if Mandela dies? And I said, look, Mandela didn't walk alone. He is a saint. But there were a lot of people and I, and then I just remember there were a

00:27:12.720 - 00:27:29.490

lot of white people in South Africa who worked for the anti apartheid movement who risked their lives. Then I, I could see a sense of relief. He leans back and he says, my father and

00:27:29.500 - 00:27:44.710

we left in 1973 and came to Houston and he said, I have never gone back except we went one time to go and celebrate the 85th anniversary of my grandfather. Well, I mean, if you

00:27:44.720 - 00:27:56.750

go away from, if I say nothing, but the moral of this story is sometimes be careful what you say because you, you, you really could be hurting some somebody. But I tell the story

00:27:56.980 - 00:28:17.310

because what needs to happen in Cameroon is that kind of sustain power that can talk and talk, listen to the other, listen to the other. And I think from, from my perspective, the my

00:28:17.320 - 00:28:38.840

remarks here I go into a long narrative about all of the reasons why that talk is necessary in Cameroon . But I think if for nothing else, for the whole idea of human dignity, we believe as

00:28:38.850 - 00:29:00.890

people of faith that God created humanity in God's image , male, female and endowed humanity and each individual with a dignity that should not be taken away, that cannot be trampled on. Even if we are

00:29:00.900 - 00:29:23.980

dealing with very important constitutional and legal questions like it faces the country of Cameroon that people ought to come to the table in order to find ways to talk about these issues. Do the political process if it

00:29:23.990 - 00:29:41.090

ends up in a vote to create a new nation , so be it. But in the meantime, we all need to be able to get to the table and talk. And I think the, the

00:29:41.100 - 00:29:55.790

Christian church can do something. A few years ago , the Catholic bishops of Cameroon addressed a letter to the president of Cameroon and they, they uh these were the Anglophone bishops. They, they all argued

00:29:56.150 - 00:30:07.450

. Yes, there is an anglophone problem. We want to tell you what that anglophone problem is. And then they went on to enumerate a lot of things. They said all of the oil in Cameroon

00:30:07.460 - 00:30:26.480

comes from the Anglophone sector. They said most of the major state corporations, the Cameron Development Corporation was an anglophone business. The headquarters used to be in , in the anglophone, but you moved it to

00:30:27.930 - 00:30:42.090

away from where all of the oil, all the palms, all of the banana, everything that that corporation produces. You moved it away from there to there. He said the Anglophones created uh the credit

00:30:42.100 - 00:31:02.210

union system. You have taken it, the headquarters used to be in, you have moved it to the Cameron Marketing Board was an Anglophone invention because of the Anglo Anglo Saxon tradition in which they grew but

00:31:02.530 - 00:31:14.140

the headquarters used to be in Kumba. You have moved it to and so they went on and on and listed and told the, the, the president , you have taken away all of the anglophone patrimony

00:31:14.800 - 00:31:26.080

. It would be good as part of the conversation to think of ways of working this out. No , I, I, that's not my word. That's the, all of the Anglophone Catholic bishops of

00:31:26.090 - 00:31:41.380

, of, of, of uh of, of Cameroon. And so if, if, if they are calling for dialogue, my view is I think the churches in Cameroon, the politicians in Cameroon,

00:31:42.200 - 00:32:06.790

the president of the country himself and the large bureaucracy in the ought to listen and say the path to ending this is to do a conversation. You know , we, we probably cannot recreate the reconciliation process

00:32:06.800 - 00:32:20.390

in South Africa. It was a very different context . Uh We now know some of the challenges of the end of the genocide in Rwanda. New things have come up in the news and we know that

00:32:20.400 - 00:32:40.920

it was not all perfect, but we know that when people sit down and talk and when leaders of faith bring those ideas to the table and encourage people to look at the legal and the political infrastructure that

00:32:40.930 - 00:33:00.660

has been debated and brought into being in light of what we are called to do, which is to serve one another, to take care of what Jesus said. The least of these my brethren we do

00:33:00.670 - 00:33:38.130

something good. Let me stop there. I, and if you have specific questions, we can talk about that. But thank you so much for your time. I like her, I think. Mhm

00:33:40.410 - 00:33:53.150

. I'm sorry, sorry, Dave. Uh Yes , I'm Cindy. I teach theology here. Can you hear me? That was a great lecture. Thank you so much. Um I, I am

00:33:53.160 - 00:34:07.170

struck by that. You're right that we need conversation in any conflict, conflictual situation. But uh Americans , I'm thinking about the American context. And you also mentioned time somewhere along the line. You said

00:34:07.180 - 00:34:15.480

, why don't we do this? And you said , well, people don't want one more thing to worry about. And I think that's what's killing us . I don't think it's lack of care. I

00:34:15.490 - 00:34:25.830

think it's fatigue and I wonder if you can comment on that. How do we, we can't even get people to come to church two weeks in a row. Uh You know, good church attendance here

00:34:25.840 - 00:34:38.800

is once a month and the amount of conversation it would take to understand each other and even begin to see each other in each others stories, which I think we have to start imagining what we can't imagine

00:34:38.810 - 00:34:54.950

in order to make peace. I mean, any suggestions for future ministers. Yeah. Yeah. Uh because uh yeah, you know, they, as you very well know, there, there was a

00:34:54.960 - 00:35:10.140

huge divide uh in the American Academy of Religion and the Society for Biblical Literature. All the politics. Uh, uh, when I went to the University of Iowa, at some 0.1 professor was commenting on

00:35:10.150 - 00:35:20.510

this and he sort of joked, he said, you know, because they said, oh, we , we, we do the study of religion and so forth and theology had no place. And,

00:35:20.520 - 00:35:30.910

um, so he sort of joked if you go to the annual meeting, you always know who the Bible people are. They look like undertakers. And I said, look, that's good. Yeah.

00:35:30.470 - 00:35:43.480

Yeah. No, I mean, I'm, I'm not, I'm not making this up. I that ability to, to critique a conversation to put something on the table. Got me into trouble with this

00:35:43.490 - 00:36:00.630

particular professor. I mean, uh uh really big time, but you raise an important point. I think uh what do we do? We do what we do, we do the research on the issues

00:36:00.640 - 00:36:16.330

that are facing our societies. Uh Not everybody reads that research, but we can find creative ways of communicating that research. I, I mean, I , I'm a Baptist. I think you guys Presbyterians

00:36:16.340 - 00:36:34.270

do a better job of disseminating that research. And uh I mean, it will shock you. My parent denomination is the denomination of both Arnold and Walter Rosen Bush. Yeah. When I, when I

00:36:34.280 - 00:36:45.040

went to seminary, the only evidence you had that Walter Rush and Bush was there was his picture hung in the hall. And uh most of us when we passed, we, you know, bow a

00:36:45.070 - 00:37:01.740

at, at his, at his picture. And um that's, that's the legacy of our faith traditions that we are called to proclaim the good news to everybody. And I think as scholars, we need

00:37:01.750 - 00:37:21.840

to continue to do that then find creative ways of not distancing ourselves from the local faith communities, find creative ways in which we can translate our research. Uh Those of you who have studied the 19th century

00:37:22.500 - 00:37:37.330

b the whole idea of the critique that we do and so forth. Sometimes we end up talking to ourselves. Uh We, we spend a lot of time reading these wonderful things and I'm as guilty as

00:37:37.340 - 00:37:53.330

, as anybody else. I uh I just finished editing a book on uh We are looking at what the implications of their work is for, for us today that we actually know and believe in our hearts

00:37:53.340 - 00:38:09.740

, that what we do is important. But it is only important as if there is some level of translation that continues to connect us to the faith community . Uh You know, I, I am as

00:38:09.750 - 00:38:20.440

guilty as any of us. Uh But when people ask me, I say at least my wife sings in the choir and, and I, and I , and I go to all the Christmas shows and

00:38:20.450 - 00:38:35.780

I go to everything and well, at least I show up at South Main Baptist Church in Houston from time to time. But uh I think the academy needs to do more on educating the public about these

00:38:35.790 - 00:39:00.740

issues in this country. I think it is sad that uh members of the faith community who have a vision of society which should be placed on the table for discussion. They, they, they want it

00:39:00.750 - 00:39:14.740

to go a different way. They wanted to go in a way that nobody can talk about it. Nobody can just assume that it is what it is . Um My take has always been uh the rich

00:39:14.750 - 00:39:36.700

mythology that emerges in the United States of America cannot easily be washed away. We need those myths. We need those stories because that is how we think of the heroic work that establishes, you know,

00:39:36.710 - 00:39:50.350

I, I'm not running for any office, but that established clearly one of the greatest experiments in human history. So what do we do with those mythologies ? How can we look at the mythologies that were

00:39:50.360 - 00:40:14.050

here before we came? How can we look at the mythologies that immigrants like offspring? How can we look at stories that people who you can't escape? Because if something goes wrong, I'm calling somebody from

00:40:14.060 - 00:40:34.020

South America. If something goes wrong, I'm calling them before I ever get to my technician. If people can do so much good to our country and they really do with their practical skills, we can

00:40:34.030 - 00:40:47.180

have a conversation with them. We, we, we, we can have a conversation with them. Uh I just finished teaching uh uh a History of World Christianity. And of course, the last conversation

00:40:47.190 - 00:41:05.210

was in South America because we go continent by continent . And um we talked about liberation theology. We talked about what it was all about. And the simplest way to talk about it is it was a

00:41:05.220 - 00:41:23.230

struggle to establish human dignity. It was a struggle to establish decency practices that would enable us uphold this . So that when we read the text, the earth is the Lord and the fullness thereof and so

00:41:23.240 - 00:41:35.920

forth, we know that we are accountable. I haven't really answered your question. I think you know that, yeah, I haven't, I've never, I've not answered it but, but I, I

00:41:35.930 - 00:41:51.880

think I agree with you. We need to find new ways of continuing the dialogue even in these difficult times that we don't ever step away from the love of God and the love of the other person.

00:41:52.510 - 00:42:04.830

Uh in philosophical terms, we would invoke webinars and say we ought to be open to the other. Yeah, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we,

00:42:04.840 - 00:42:20.560

we should be open to the other. That, that, that other in the language of Lebar is someone whom you cannot control, you cannot dominate, you cannot try to eliminate that other will always be

00:42:20.570 - 00:42:43.110

your teacher. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Thank you. Thank you, Doctor Bong for a really , I've learned more in the last hour uh about this region of the world than in the last 10

00:42:43.120 - 00:42:52.140

years. Uh And so thank you. Um, and so I, I, I like to think that I'm a fairly well informed person, you know , I read the New York Times. I listen

00:42:52.150 - 00:43:04.650

to the BBC and N Pr. Um, I think maybe in the last 10 years I've heard about the war in civil War in Cameron, maybe one time in 10 years. And so what strikes me

00:43:04.660 - 00:43:15.410

is the silence in the media, silence in the White House and then you even mentioned silence in the neighboring Nigeria. So is it, I mean, so I guess I have two questions. Why is

00:43:15.420 - 00:43:34.670

there this absence of information? And is there anywhere in the world where this is a lively topic of , you know, the uh in the media? Um That's a very good question. No, I

00:43:34.680 - 00:43:57.100

don't, I don't know why. Um I can't speculate but it seems to me that most of the major powers are getting to a point where they recognize that when they easily take sides and promote some conflict

00:43:58.230 - 00:44:19.720

, they do greater damage. But should that excuse them? No, I think I think they can step in and bring the two sides together. I don't know if President Biden can possibly bring the anglophone

00:44:19.730 - 00:44:37.780

sector and the president of Cameroon to the table. But President Macron of France, that has a lot of influence because I think uh most, most Africans will tell you that contrary to the other European powers

00:44:38.040 - 00:44:58.190

, French still has very close economic and political ties with its former African countries. And so, uh , there are these annual, uh, Francophone summits every time and, and so forth and most people

00:44:58.200 - 00:45:13.780

think or those who don't analyze it in depth think that is because those economies continue to support the economy of France. Uh, every once in a while you read that, uh, those countries are supposed

00:45:13.790 - 00:45:28.440

to bank with the central bank of France and so on and so forth. So I do not, I do not really know why they have not. But I think there is, there is a global

00:45:28.450 - 00:45:46.900

fatigue about war. There is a global fatigue about war. Uh Even in this country, uh there is a fatigue about that. Our son served in the navy. Uh he was deployed in operation Iraqi

00:45:46.910 - 00:45:57.910

Freedom. You know, I'm talking like a military family. That's the way they call the last Gulf War. The, the code name for it is operation Iraqi Freedom. And uh his ship went to

00:45:57.920 - 00:46:13.080

Japan and then when his tour of duty was over , he was given an honorable discharge and he returned and lives in Seattle. I think not only this country, most people are sick and tired of war

00:46:14.130 - 00:46:30.760

and I don't know the kind of conversation that we need to start, but I think faith communities can continue to educate people. Um the best way to do it is not to engage in a shouting match

00:46:31.120 - 00:46:45.700

. It doesn't help anybody. Uh but continue to do uh the kinds of conversations for, for a long time, you know, I, I read a lot of the peace and justice material which the

00:46:45.710 - 00:46:58.810

Presbyterian Church put out. Uh It, it, it, it shaped the way I think about politics and, and many things and, and I, and I think we may not be able to see

00:46:58.820 - 00:47:13.170

the results now or something major transformative happening in such places. But that record is there, that conversation continues. Uh And we should do that. I asked for politicians, I really do not know.

00:47:13.420 - 00:47:31.490

But I'm becoming convinced that those who say all they do is follow the money. It's true. All they do is follow the money. Africa has a huge problem. I mean, clearly the most endowed

00:47:31.500 - 00:47:47.960

continent in the world think of the Congo, the Belgians looted everything, the beginning to return those things which you can laugh about it. Uh The most recent thing the Belgians return was the gold tooth of

00:47:47.970 - 00:48:00.130

Patrice Lumumba that they they, they, you know , they, they took everything and even took the gold tooth of Patrice Lumumba to to Belgium recently they they returned it but Africa is still a flame in

00:48:00.140 - 00:48:15.560

a lot of ways, the Democratic Republic of Congo is being destroyed because they are the only place in the world that has some of the key ingredients that goes into your cell phone. So everybody says do

00:48:15.570 - 00:48:30.820

what you blame the Chinese. Well, uh we let the Chinese in so it's gotten to such a point where there is an anti China rhetoric which I , which I think is just really silly, unacceptable

00:48:31.090 - 00:48:45.250

China is doing what everybody does. They, they , they are helping build communities in the process, you make money. That's, that's the way the world works. And so the problem in Africa is

00:48:45.260 - 00:49:06.010

not China, the problem in Africa is us, our leaders ought to be able to establish the ground rules for fair play and be welcoming to, to everybody. I I I'm rambling of course. But

00:49:06.020 - 00:49:20.290

uh yes, I think we, we as faith communities can continue to talk about these issues even in the United States, even even in the United States . And um if I can be political a little

00:49:20.300 - 00:49:37.050

bit, I think, I think January 6th failed because there are people here who, who don't. That's not the way we do business here. That's just not the way we do business here. So

00:49:37.060 - 00:49:51.530

, so there will be rough times, there will be difficult times. Uh As long as we are not in the business of silencing somebody, we will continue to have some of these tough conversations. And

00:49:51.540 - 00:50:15.400

I think what we bring to the table always would be we have a proclamation, God created us, male and female and endowed us with dignity. You cannot take that dignity from anybody. Friends get up