00:00:09.610 - 00:00:19.890

Welcome everyone to our cultivating ideas here at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Um Reverend Phil Dickey and I have the pleasure of getting to be the host once again today and glad, glad that you're joining us on

00:00:19.900 - 00:00:33.510

this lovely Thursday afternoon here. Um Today, we will be joined by Eric Wall as he uh brings us a conversation on songs along the way. Music in the Linton Journey. Eric is the Gene Alice

00:00:33.520 - 00:00:44.420

Sherman, Associate professor of sacred music and the dean of the Chapel at Austin Seminary. He's also the seminary musician, helps service the worship life of the campus and teaches courses in church music and worship.

00:00:44.890 - 00:00:56.330

Eric joined the faculty in 2016, earned a bachelor's degree, Magna cum latte in organ performance and a master's degree in choral conducting from Florida State University. So, Eric, we are thrilled to have you

00:00:56.340 - 00:01:03.240

joining us. I'll, I'll make this announcement real fast now and then I'll say it again at the end as well, but just be reminded that we will not be having cultivating ideas next week, the

00:01:03.250 - 00:01:11.890

seminars on spring break next week will be back on the 21st. So don't show up here next week or you'll probably be eating lunch by yourself. Um , but we're glad to have you keep yourself muted

00:01:11.900 - 00:01:21.630

if you will until after the presentation and then we'll open up for conversation. Um, you're always welcome to type things in the chat along the way. Uh, write down your questions there and just keep

00:01:21.640 - 00:01:26.870

them rather than in your head, put them down in the chat. So you don't lose them. But we're, we're looking forward to the conversation and with that, we'll turn it over to Eric.

00:01:26.880 - 00:01:37.950

Thank you, sir. Thanks, Phil. And hello, everybody. It's good to be with you all. Um I'm sitting here at, at the seminary in the campus in the room, we call

00:01:37.960 - 00:01:49.560

the liturgy lab, uh which is used for all kinds of worship, um classes and education. Um And I've just come actually from a chapel service here on campus and I see two of our former chapel

00:01:49.570 - 00:01:57.410

assistants here and they will know the feeling. Uh I, because Chapa was still going on, I pointed at one of our alums in the room who is a musician. I said I need you to

00:01:57.420 - 00:02:07.240

lead the last hymn because I have to go. So uh we trust that um all is going well and it's good to be surrounded by uh all kinds of people with all kinds of gifts. So,

00:02:07.250 - 00:02:23.660

thank you all for being here. Um Today, I'm gonna share my screen here and stay on this screen share um until we get to question. So , um uh at the end, I've called this

00:02:24.110 - 00:02:42.900

time together today uh songs along the way, um music and the Lenten journey. Um And since it's always good to begin by listening to music, um we will do that. And first an American folk

00:02:43.030 - 00:05:02.790

him you might recognize or even not recognize but somehow intuit that you've heard before. It's called Wayfaring Stranger . Today on today's date, we are more or less equidistant between Ash Wednesday and Monday, Thursday.

00:05:02.800 - 00:05:18.600

We are essentially halfway along the journey of Lent Ash Wednesday, arrived in mid February and Monday. Thursday will come to us near the end of March. So here is a hymn text. This is a

00:05:18.610 - 00:05:35.100

text by uh a writer named Mary Louise Brile and being a hymn text that really means that it's a poem and I will read these three stanzas. It is a Lent hymn as the winter days grow longer

00:05:35.360 - 00:05:50.950

, drawing short, the hours of night as our eager expectation waits for Easter's dawning light, yearning. People. Here we gather, turning watchful eyes to you God who blesses earth with springtime shine within our

00:05:50.960 - 00:06:09.710

world. An new as the vines begin as the vines burst into blossom, fragrant in the morning, air lifting spirits with their sweetness, luring hearts to thankful prayer. Linton people here we gather, seeking

00:06:09.720 - 00:06:27.680

lives refreshed from sin God who blesses earth with springtime bloom within our hearts again as we journey through this season, pilgrims through a thirsty land, quench us with your living presence, guide us with your loving

00:06:27.690 - 00:06:45.540

hand wandering people. Here we gather, called to rest along our way, God who blesses earth with springtime grant us Sabbath Joy. This day, the author writes of this text um quote, she says

00:06:45.550 - 00:07:00.700

, I am fascinated by etymologies. The word lent , for example, derives from the middle English word L E N T E L E N T E , which originally meant spring in the northern hemisphere.

00:07:00.710 - 00:07:14.280

Spring is a season when days began, begin to lengthen in the southeastern United States where our author lives . She says the season of Lent occurs during the time of year when flowering fruit trees first begin perfuming

00:07:14.290 - 00:07:26.790

the air with the hope of new life. I wrote this hymn. Therefore, she says as a Lenten text rather different from the more somber seasonal hymns with which I was familiar recognizing that even in this

00:07:26.800 - 00:07:45.990

time of prayer and preparation for the passion of Christ Sundays in but not of Lent remain celebrations of the resurrection. We might say that the markers and signposts on the Linton way include the arts, the beauty

00:07:46.000 - 00:08:00.440

, lyricism, vitality and wonder that permeate our life together and the life of the church's worship and color and sound and movement. How do the arts in today's conversation, especially the music and the words that

00:08:00.450 - 00:08:18.110

often partner it. How do they help us mark this time? Here's another poem, I was introduced to just days before Lent began. The author is Anne Porter. The title is music. When I

00:08:18.120 - 00:08:31.430

was a child, I once sat sobbing on the floor beside my mother's piano and she played and sang for there was in her singing a shy yet solemn glory. My smallness could not hold. And when

00:08:31.440 - 00:08:45.600

I was asked why I was crying, I had no words for it. I only shook my head and went on crying. Why is it that music at its most beautiful opens a wound in us,

00:08:45.880 - 00:08:58.900

an ache, a desolation deep as a homesickness for some far off and half forgotten country. I've never understood why this is so. But there's an ancient legend from the other side of the world that gives

00:08:58.910 - 00:09:13.160

away the secret of this mysterious sorrow. For centuries on centuries, we have been wandering but we were made for paradise as deer for the forest. And when music comes to us with its heavenly beauty,

00:09:13.790 - 00:09:28.280

it brings us desolation. For when we hear it , we half remember that lost native country. We dimly remember the fields, their fragrant windswept, clover , the bird songs and the orchards, the wild

00:09:28.290 - 00:09:43.140

white violets and the moss by the transparent streams and shining at the heart of it is the longed for beauty of the one who waits for us, who will always wait for us in those radiant meadows.

00:09:43.030 - 00:10:03.240

Yet also came to live with us and wanders where we wander. If we ask how music and poetry help us mark time during Lent. Perhaps a prior question to ask, is this, what kind of

00:10:03.250 - 00:10:22.130

time are we marking in Lent? Does it only mean rituals of denial or perhaps vague notions of self imposed austerity or mournfulness, which in the church's music are all too easily translated to mean uh minor keys

00:10:22.140 - 00:11:09.260

and somber sounds now often music like that is precisely what we need, of course. And even a glance at the texts offered in the lectionary for Lent , show us that kind of tone. When Joel

00:11:09.270 - 00:11:22.770

calls for a solemn assembly on Ash Wednesday or Jesus walks the desert on the first Sunday in Lent. But as the season unfolds, we also find healing stories, even resurrection stories. We find a joyful

00:11:22.780 - 00:11:37.630

homecoming feast, mysterious conversations. Jesus's anger in the temple, the fragrance of Mary's anointing of Jesus's feet to say nothing of the cosmic storytelling range of Holy Week. So these Lent weeks are sober. Yes

00:11:39.140 - 00:11:56.990

, but also rich varied mystical, even earthy. They may invite at least sometimes a solemnity more deeply . They invite an attentiveness than noticing a return an alignment or as the poem we just heard, puts

00:11:56.000 - 00:12:18.260

it heavenly beauty, desolation, dim remembrance, fragrance , birdsong, wildflowers, streams and Longed for Beauty . 20th century Argentinian author, Jorge Luis Borges wrote Life is I am sure made of poetry. Poetry

00:12:18.270 - 00:12:35.610

is not alien. Poetry is lurking around the corner . It may spring on us any moment. I think he is talking not about poetry as a fearsome thing of literature, but as a way of perceiving

00:12:35.620 - 00:12:50.420

the world and manifestations of beauty that in his wonderful phrase may spring on us any moment. And so in thinking about this, we'll consider some ways to be on the lookout for the poetry and the music

00:12:50.430 - 00:13:05.330

lurking around the corners of lint, both in worship and perhaps beyond it, we'll look at some song hymn examples uh In our case today, all of them come or I am one of my resources for

00:13:05.340 - 00:13:16.850

them is the Presbyterian hymnal Glory to God. They are all, they are also in other hymnals and song collections. And it is not even just these specific songs we are considering but more deeply what's underneath

00:13:16.860 - 00:13:31.900

them, the varying expressions that songs can have the range of textual nuance that songs can have and the different ways that different songs can invite us to sing , pray, hear scripture and be in liturgy.

00:13:31.730 - 00:13:50.030

So several things we'll consider today. Um Some small categories, songs for a journey, different season, different sounds spoken, not sung beyond Sunday and Lent and Easter. And we'll consider these one at a

00:13:50.040 - 00:14:03.650

time to begin with. The first one. Songs for a journey songs and worship may urge us at times to press forward at other times, to slow down at all times, to be attentive. Here

00:14:03.660 - 00:14:18.470

are four possible songs for Lent. None of them is in the lent section of glory to God. The first one is a wonderful song. Leave Me Guide Me. It is a gospel hymn by Doris

00:14:18.480 - 00:16:32.970

Acres. It is exuberant, commanding, joyful. In this song, we offer ourselves to God for a journey that demands strength. And we ask God for strength and power. Maybe it is our song

00:16:32.980 - 00:16:47.200

. Maybe it is even in a way, the song of Jesus, it might not be a somber lent song. It might summon our energies, our breath, our spiritual muscle or a chorus that comes

00:16:47.210 - 00:17:26.610

from France, Frances to Z community bless the Lord my soul. This haunting chorus has a kind of poignant gravity, though not sorrowful. It seems aware of sorrow though not loud. It carries deep conviction

00:17:26.600 - 00:17:38.960

because it begins by blessing God. It might begin our worship because it ends in trust that God leads us. It might end our worship. It might serve our confession or punctuate our preaching or invite us

00:17:38.970 - 00:17:52.700

to the table. And because like all of these little choruses from the T community in France, it is designed to be repeated. It offers us a way of centering by constant singing that we might dip

00:17:52.710 - 00:19:19.480

in and out of Jos Asta AKI God is here today. This is a lovely song. Certainly a journey song process, don't you on to him? So my soul, this song gives thanks for the

00:19:19.490 - 00:19:33.960

New Day. God brings for sun and air for shared humanity expressed here is the song that we sing to one another. Even in Lent Sunday affirms resurrection and new creation. Could a Lent worship begin with

00:19:33.970 - 00:19:51.070

something gentle and heartwarming a thanksgiving like this. It is gentle and slow, but not solemn or sad . And then 1/4 song come now o Prince of Peace. In Holy Week, we may read and

00:19:51.080 - 00:20:03.280

hear the text in John's Gospel in which Jesus washes the disciple's feet. We may even enact the foot washing itself in some of our worship. In this great scene. Jesus' prayer for the disciples is that

00:20:03.290 - 00:20:17.950

, is that they all be one. And he shows that servant love by which disciples are to love one another in glory to God. The Presbyterian hymnal . This song appears as an Advent Song uh possibly

00:20:17.960 - 00:20:29.370

because it begins with a prayer to the Prince of Peace. In another hymnal we have here on campus Santo, Santo, Santo. It appears in a section of the hymnal called Koto Uno. That all

00:20:29.380 - 00:21:00.950

of them may be one. What if it were a song for the weeks of lent an ongoing prayer for oneness, reconciliation, freedom, and love. So Bo one us right? Having sung it throughout

00:21:00.960 - 00:21:15.880

lent, we might find particular power in its resonance during holy week. When we arrive at that foot , washing servant love moment. We might also think in terms of different sounds for this different season.

00:21:17.270 - 00:21:30.550

In any season of the church year, we craft liturgy and adorn space in certain ways. Our musical practices themselves are ways of adorning seasons, telling us when and where we are. How do musical sounds

00:21:30.560 - 00:22:04.320

do this and how might they do them differently in a particular season? For instance, we might be used to certain sounds at the beginning of worship. If we are used to the sound, just as

00:22:04.330 - 00:22:29.730

an example of the organ at the beginning of worship , what would happen if we made ourselves used instead to the sound of bells at the beginning of worship , this isn't even a bell piece. It's just

00:22:29.740 - 00:22:49.270

the sound of bells. How does different music invite us into a different space? Piano instead of organ bells, instead of piano percussion instead of pitches? How would different music send us out of worship?

00:22:49.690 - 00:23:08.940

What if we heard bells at the end of worship as we take our leave in some church traditions, instrumentalists don't play postludes, for example, at the end of worship, but there might be other ways

00:23:11.180 - 00:23:30.340

to have music, other sounds. What if communion in lent happens in silence rather than music, different sounds help make a different, a different season, distinctive and particular spoken songs, spoken and not sung

00:23:32.200 - 00:23:45.980

, the practice and lent of withdrawing certain things from worship, perhaps flowers or the singing and saying of the word hallelujah, for instance, or other more subtle ways we pare down those things have greater impact

00:23:45.990 - 00:24:00.470

when they come back in the Easter season. Though it might seem a radical idea what happens if we occasionally withdraw music itself, not just from the beginning or end of worship, but from songs themselves.

00:24:00.250 - 00:24:12.270

We know the quality of congregational speech think of saying an affirmation of faith or the Lord's prayer or a confession together. When a group of people talks, there is a gravity, a plainness, a different

00:24:12.280 - 00:24:27.790

kind of attendants to the words. So what if a congregation reads rather than s a hymn text before assuming that deprived of music, a text will seem lifeless or dull. We remember as we heard earlier

00:24:27.800 - 00:24:45.280

that poetry lurks around the corner and that hymn texts are themselves poetry equipped with innate music of rhyme and rhythm. For instance, I I lent him a kind of a classic, lent him text rather than

00:24:45.290 - 00:24:59.180

singing it. Imagine a congregation simply speaking it straight out of the hymnal Lord who throughout these 40 days for us, didst fast and pray, teach us with you to mourn our sins and close by you

00:24:59.190 - 00:25:12.940

to stay abide with us till when this life of suffering shall be passed. And Easter of an unending joy we may attain at last, the rhythm and the rhyme of the, of the words carries it

00:25:14.020 - 00:25:29.640

even if the music isn't there. Here is a text written for the Crossing from Palm Sunday through Passion Sunday and into Holy Week. It's a text by Tom Troger. And though it comes in glory to

00:25:29.650 - 00:25:41.930

God with a tune, it has a particular power . If it's just spoken as poetry. A cheering chanting, dizzy crowd had stripped the green trees bare and hailing Christ as king aloud waved branches in the

00:25:41.940 - 00:25:57.230

air, they laid their garments in the road and spread his path with palms and vows of lasting love bestowed with royal hymns and psalms. When day dimmed down to deepening dark, the crowd began to fade

00:25:57.610 - 00:26:14.430

till only trampled leaves and bark were left from the parade. Lest we be fooled because our hearts have surged with passing praise. Remind us God as this week starts where Christ has fixed his gaze instead of

00:26:14.440 - 00:26:26.730

palms, a winding sheet will have to be unrolled . A carpet. Much more fit to greet the king across will hold. We're actually doing this hymn exactly that way here at the seminary after our spring

00:26:26.740 - 00:26:41.030

break, we just had a planning meeting in this room yesterday and made that determination. We're going to end the service with a recitation, no music of this hymn or consider the many psalms that we often

00:26:41.040 - 00:26:52.310

say they crop up all over the place in our hymnals as hymns. What if we read together? Lord? Why have you forsaken me? And why are you so far away from my complaint? And

00:26:52.320 - 00:27:04.150

my distress poured out before you night and day. Yet you o Lord have been my God and only hope since I was born with trouble near me. None can help my savior leave me. Not,

00:27:04.160 - 00:27:18.990

not forlorn. You may find hearing these texts, read that you really want to hear what the music is. But a kind of lint um practice could be to take hymns every now and then and lint

00:27:18.150 - 00:27:32.650

and not do them with music, but simply invite the congregation to see them. One final one, an upper room. Did our Lord prepare for those he loved until the end. And his disciples still

00:27:32.660 - 00:27:45.810

gather there to celebrate their risen friend. A lasting gift, Jesus gave his own to share his bread , his loving cup, whatever burdens may bow us down, he by his cross shall lift us up

00:27:45.170 - 00:28:06.830

. It's a Monday, Thursday hymn. Could you imagine the congregation reciting the words early in worship with no music, then later in worship, coming back to the same hymn and seeing them 43 on to

00:28:08.250 - 00:28:37.500

his, the, the play of music or non music can be rich and evocative beyond Sunday, beyond worship throughout the weeks of the season when we are , we are accustomed perhaps to Linton devotional practices.

00:28:38.200 - 00:28:55.600

How does the church's repertory of music go with us ? Well, one practice we might try is simply to hum a hymn tune every morning. Think of a hymn you particularly love. Don't worry about the

00:28:55.610 - 00:29:18.420

words, just hum the tune. Hm. If you say morning or daily prayers, hum a hymn tune every day, whether the same one or a different one and note how it might inform the way

00:29:18.430 - 00:29:32.050

you pray or read scripture. We might read hymns themselves as devotions. Often we turn to the hymnal only when we need it, when we need to have a hymn. And we're searching for keywords or

00:29:32.060 - 00:29:48.150

topics. What if we simply read a hymn every day? Not because we are cross referencing scripture or preaching themes but simply reading the words as devotional poetry . Sometimes we gather and lent in groups to study

00:29:48.160 - 00:30:00.930

books or have scriptural studies. What if we gather to study hymns or songs to, to consider the hymnal and talk about these texts and listen to people singing them and talk about what they do for us

00:30:03.810 - 00:30:15.250

or has told us that poetry is lurking around the corner and so does music listening to the radio or Spotify, tells us to new, tells us that what if a lent practice for us was simply to

00:30:15.260 - 00:30:29.040

try to listen to new things. It's what radio listening is, especially if we don't have a video screen to tell us what song is coming up next . After all. A fundamental premise of the leary

00:30:29.050 - 00:30:41.950

scripture patterns is that those appointed scripture texts are ones we don't choose, we just come face to face with them. Music and other arts are more than ever chable during any, during lent or any season

00:30:41.960 - 00:30:52.540

for that matter, we can be more alert to the music that is coming at us music that awaits when we turn the hymnal page or the order of worship page, music that we hear unexpectedly, we

00:30:52.550 - 00:31:06.420

can make it a discipline to intentionally, to intentionally listen every day however briefly to some kind of music that we've never heard before with so much available and findable, it isn't hard to find something that we've

00:31:06.430 - 00:31:27.750

never encountered. What might new soundscapes reveal to us and finally went and Easter, we are accustomed to think of Lent and Easter as two distinct seasons, maybe sometimes Easter as the grand ending of Lent.

00:31:29.120 - 00:31:41.230

We know of course, that Easter is actually a 50 day season. It's longer than Lent. Here are four songs that we could easily sing during Lent . We've mentioned two of them diosa star and come

00:31:41.370 - 00:32:12.650

now a prince of peace. But we might also think of wondrous love or precious Lord. But if you think about it, if we think about it , every one of these hymns could also work on

00:32:12.660 - 00:32:29.670

Easter Sunday. Does that seem strange to us? Perhaps there isn't really the Easter stories in the gospels after all are all mysterious stories. They are quiet , they are sorrowful, they are fearful and none

00:32:29.680 - 00:32:44.330

of the gospels are their trumpet fanfares at the tomb . No loud organ music, no choral descants, no bold choruses. We are used to planning Easter Sunday with a sense of bigness and loudness perhaps.

00:32:44.760 - 00:33:29.850

But do we also plan a liturgy? That sounds the depths of the story, not just its heights . For example, why couldn't Easter Sunday awaken with gentle gratitude on Easter Sunday? Could we not pray

00:33:29.860 - 00:34:19.510

for jesus' presence and wholeness just as Jesus did before his death? And on Easter Sunday, could we not affirm? Not on, not only the triumph but the mystery of God's love? And on Easter

00:34:19.520 - 00:35:08.200

Sunday, could we not sing of our frailty and yearning? It is Easter Sunday, but all is not yet. Well, in the world, I've been drawn to this song in the past couple of

00:35:08.210 - 00:35:21.770

weeks because in planning a Palm Sunday themed service, one of our students suggested this very song as a Palm Sunday song. I had never thought of that before. And now it's um very much in front

00:35:21.780 - 00:35:31.700

of me. Uh the prayer to be led onward , uh the onwards uh that is on Palm Sunday and even on Easter. So as we come, even to a Sunday, like Easter that we think

00:35:31.710 - 00:35:51.310

of as triumphant and bursting with newness and life, we can think of songs that we might never have thought of doing knowing that even in their quietness or their mystery and above all in their mystery that they

00:35:51.320 - 00:37:31.340

might offer us something. So as we mark time , I simply invite you to be alert to all the different sounds and songs and moments of poetry that you will find as we go on into the second

00:37:31.350 - 00:37:45.900

half of L. Thank you. Thank you, Eric. I appreciate that. It was lovely and uh it was just chatting with Michael on the side about how nice it is just to have a change

00:37:45.910 - 00:37:54.970

of pace from, we've had incredibly wonderful conversations and , and deep theological conversations and what a great um on this journey of l to take a little bit of a turn of pace here to have some music

00:37:55.160 - 00:38:05.490

intertwined in the conversation as well. So, um it, the conversation is open. I invite you all. If you have questions, feel free to unmute yourself or if you aren't at a space where

00:38:05.500 - 00:38:12.230

you can unmute, you're welcome to put them in the chat. Um And I see Carlos has done so and I'll go ahead and read it out loud for you here, Carlos, who says, can

00:38:12.240 - 00:38:25.340

you say more about the textual nuance that songs can have? Sure, I'll, I'll try to say something about that. Um I think that um sometimes , for example, the first thing that comes to

00:38:25.350 - 00:38:39.050

mind in, in answer to your question is that uh I know often when I am working with worship planning and I'm looking for a song that matches well with scripture or a preaching theme or some element of

00:38:39.060 - 00:38:54.290

the, the, the calendar or the particular liturgical occasion. Sometimes the first thing we reach for or notice is the title of a song or a specific line that matches a scriptural reference. And if,

00:38:54.300 - 00:39:06.690

if you will almost a kind of keyword search that here here, here's a, here's one piece of a song that, that um uh uh lines up with something else that we're looking for. And,

00:39:06.850 - 00:39:17.150

um, I know that sometimes I've picked hymns according , uh, with that in mind and gotten into worship and then, um, struck in other way , struck how other, uh, moments of the

00:39:17.160 - 00:39:28.470

text emerged in the service that I had not thought of. Uh, maybe I hadn't read through the other verses as thoroughly as I should have. Um , or maybe I had read through them and only

00:39:28.480 - 00:39:37.610

became aware of a nuance or a resonance because I , there was no way to know what the sermon would be until we all heard it. And then the, then the words of the hymn took on

00:39:37.620 - 00:39:51.400

a specific life. So sometimes it is very helpful to me simply, it's, it's why I, the, the, the point about simply reading texts of, of songs at, at times other than

00:39:51.410 - 00:40:05.390

when I'm doing an intentional search. And if I read those texts, um there may be some little inflection of poetry, some little um reference to uh uh um to prayer or to another scripture or uh

00:40:05.400 - 00:40:15.960

to some emotional, there may be some emotional impact , um some flavor in a text um that I didn't notice in the first verse, which is the one I was going for, but which appeared in

00:40:15.970 - 00:40:28.390

the third verse, which was maybe a little bit buried further down. So that's, that's some of what I think of when I think of textual nuance , things that um things that you have to dig

00:40:28.400 - 00:40:38.150

through by maybe reading text more than one time and savoring them or saying the words out loud over and over. Like we would phrases of poetry and we start to find a little bit of music in them

00:40:38.160 - 00:40:52.560

or an expressive quality. So Laura asked, um she says, I love the idea of how sound can help to shape the worship space. What are some of the more unusual musical offerings you have seen

00:40:52.570 - 00:41:15.210

or used in worship? Um So I would say um among that kind of unusual variety, um I um I'll just, I'll just think on the spur of the moment here. Um Sometimes we have started

00:41:15.220 - 00:41:31.090

worship um with the sounds of drums only from a distance or somebody walking in, playing percussion. Sometimes we have started worship uh with a solo voice vocalizing on the tune of a hymn, no words just

00:41:31.100 - 00:41:44.190

simply vocalizing, maybe walking through the space. Um Sometimes we've started as I uh I, I, I had, I brought a couple of handbells here with me. Um one of the most evocative ways

00:41:44.200 - 00:41:58.670

, that's why I kept playing them at that point of the webinar. Uh one of the most bells or some of the most evocative sounds. Um It's , it's almost impossible not to be called to attention

00:41:58.680 - 00:42:09.310

in some way when we hear them. And sometimes I've invited people to ring bells uh standing uh in a, in a perimeter around the space or beginning of the back and moving to the front or beginning

00:42:09.320 - 00:42:20.210

to the front and moving to the back. Um Just two days ago here at the seminary, we began, uh we were, there was a song we were doing at the end of the service that

00:42:20.220 - 00:42:32.620

we knew would be a possibly more unfamiliar than others . And we began the service with the choir members standing in the back of our small relatively small chapel , um playing bells and percussion, humming, uh

00:42:32.950 - 00:42:45.190

humming the song itself. We never used any of the words. We just simply created some bell patterns built out of the song and hummed the tune of the song just to put it into the space in

00:42:45.200 - 00:42:54.060

a kind of subliminal way. So in the hope that when we came back to it at the end of the service, um it would somehow have a , have a familiarity, one of the most uh

00:42:54.070 - 00:43:06.000

a striking example I think of, of what you're asking. And I may, I think I mentioned I alluded to this, but I'll expand on it a bit more. Um is the notion of doing

00:43:06.010 - 00:43:15.960

, for example, communion and silence. And that was first suggested to me many years ago at the church, I served in North Carolina, a member of our choir said we should try communion and silence

00:43:15.970 - 00:43:27.700

. And until she said it, I'm not sure it ever occurred to me. And we did um this past summer, I was in a worship service at a music conference in quite a large auditorium.

00:43:28.720 - 00:43:39.820

And uh I was working for the conference as one of the musicians. And we decided to have communion with about 800 people with no music at all. During the serving people were coming forward for communion to

00:43:39.830 - 00:43:52.160

um for intention to dip, to receive the bread and dip it. And during all that time of 7 to 800 people in a, in, in a big room, we had no music and what

00:43:52.170 - 00:44:05.540

was commented on by people afterwards was what they actually heard without. When there wasn't music here, they heard footsteps, they heard the kind of shuffle and movement of people. The the they heard one per

00:44:05.550 - 00:44:15.190

as one person said, I felt like I heard the movement of the people of God. They heard the whispered words of serving uh the cup of the bread of life, the cup of salvation. And

00:44:15.560 - 00:44:30.750

the other thing that leaped into the space without that music, I found this to be true. We had artwork, visual artwork hanging on the walls of this auditorium. And somehow with the silence, with

00:44:30.760 - 00:44:45.400

the withdrawal of music, the artwork suddenly became prominent . The artwork was what started to speak into the space because our ears were not as it were preoccupied with music. And suddenly another artistic piece of the

00:44:45.410 - 00:44:59.580

space. So it could be that um if any of us are in spaces where there is some kind of visual art, artistic representation, somehow it sometimes it can get, it can become more prominent when

00:44:59.590 - 00:45:13.140

other arts just take a backseat. Um Occasionally. Um And I often find that if there are, if I have some idea of music that is, as you say, in the question, um unusual

00:45:13.150 - 00:45:30.700

or um um uh hitherto untried perhaps. Um What I often find is that if that happens in a service where some other musical piece of the service is very much uh central to the way that congregation worships

00:45:30.870 - 00:45:42.560

. Um If, if, if I'm introducing some new sound of bells or drums or other kinds of instrument that maybe we haven't had before or some musical style of song that we haven't had before or some

00:45:42.930 - 00:45:55.280

um sung musical language that we haven't had before. Beth, if another part of the service has a song that I know for this congregation is bedrock that I know it, it is just in their bones

00:45:55.290 - 00:46:10.680

then that perhaps radically new music suddenly becomes in partnership with something that is um quite familiar and we realize that we don't have to. Um we, we , we're not always jettisoning the things that we love

00:46:10.690 - 00:46:21.980

, we're simply adding to them and everything is made even more wonderful Eric on that note, just kind of from a, I love the idea of varying and trying these new things from a practical standpoint.

00:46:22.360 - 00:46:30.290

Have you received pushback or I feel like I've been in congregations where I've heard congregants say things like, well, there was just too much new all at once. And so it was almost distracting from worship

00:46:30.300 - 00:46:38.210

. I'd love to hear your thoughts or input on like, is how much is too much or what do you do to prep a congregation for or is prepping? Does that take the mystery away from it

00:46:38.220 - 00:46:49.080

? Just kind of, yeah, that's a great , the last part of that question is, is great. Uh I would say sure, I can remember, I can, um, uh, people

00:46:49.090 - 00:47:00.720

who know me or work with me know that there's always a surplus of ideas, um, coming out of my head and, uh, I have certainly been, um, uh, guilty of, um

00:47:00.280 - 00:47:10.470

, of, of overstuffing with those ideas. I can remember a member of my church once coming to be, um, this has been a while and I was saying it was all great and creative but

00:47:10.480 - 00:47:22.320

it was a little too much. Um, and , and so, uh, some of that, like any, like any new or unusual practices in , in congregations, um, a lot of that

00:47:22.330 - 00:47:35.340

depends on the trust you have built up with people , the relationships, your knowledge of the community. Um And, um, and, and generally trying to know that, um, uh, that one

00:47:35.350 - 00:47:50.560

or two, unusual or new or experimental or different ideas is one thing five or six in the same service. Um, uh, those start to call attention to themselves simply may, those can start to

00:47:50.570 - 00:48:05.450

call attention to themselves simply because of their newness. Um And so for me, when I'm thinking about those things, I may be thinking about um certain times of year, for example, where creativity or

00:48:05.460 - 00:48:16.560

different things are expected. Advent Christmas often lent Easter . There's certain times of year where we expect things to be a little bit different because that's the nature of those seasons. Uh I'm also trying to think

00:48:16.570 - 00:48:32.400

whenever possible about not merely something that's a new idea or a new sound in and of itself, but how it makes sense in the moment of a service . Uh Does it converge with a naturalness of doing

00:48:32.410 - 00:48:45.760

prayer? Does it converge with a naturalness of movement ? Say for communion or something else? Does it converge in it? Do its words converge with a particular part of the service like confession or sending uh

00:48:45.770 - 00:49:00.990

does it resonate particularly with a scripture that we are hearing and um trying to absorb um in that day and to your, to the last point of your question about whether we were talking about this just yesterday

00:49:01.000 - 00:49:15.030

here in, in the class, um this, this hymn text that we're going to do when we come back from Break the Palm Sunday text about the cheering chanting, dizzy crowd. Um One of the

00:49:15.040 - 00:49:23.650

things I we, we were breaking up into groups and I said, come, y'all come back with three different examples of how you would invite a congregation to do this. And so students came back and

00:49:23.660 - 00:49:38.860

we, we, we kicked, we kicked around ideas for what's the right amount of, of invitation and explanation so that people feel they know what to do. People feel empowered and welcomed into this moment

00:49:38.870 - 00:49:52.880

of worship, but not so much explanation, not an invitation. That is not so much of an explanation that it does, as you say, Phil undercut the sense of mystery and that's always a balance

00:49:53.010 - 00:50:07.660

and, and, and it one of the ways I sometimes think of it is um there is a piece of hospitality in the kinds of welcome and invitation we make and there's also a piece of hospitality in

00:50:08.100 - 00:50:21.930

um how much the the sound itself will invite people in the words themselves, will invite people in the liturgical act itself will invite people in. So uh trying to think of both of those things that hold

00:50:21.940 - 00:50:32.180

a balance and it can be a hard balance to strike. Um I try whenever possible to hold on to um to, to trusting the mystery, to reveal itself and to speak for itself and to,

00:50:32.190 - 00:50:45.200

to know, to try to find the sweet spot of just enough explanation and invitation to let the mystery lift up but not so much to sink that or to, to, to, to overpower it or

00:50:45.210 - 00:50:55.090

cover it up. Yeah, that's lovely. Thank you for clarifying on that. Um Elizabeth asks, are hallelujahs OK, during lint or church taboo? Oh, goodness, you know, I have to

00:50:55.100 - 00:51:07.020

say I, there, there are so many other people who are more qualified to answer that than me . Um, uh, that's, that's actually a tradition. Um, I did not grow up with

00:51:07.030 - 00:51:19.820

or know, um, and, um, uh , and some churches do, um, some churches will not only, not sing in Hallelujah, they'll make a ceremony of, of what's sometimes called burying

00:51:19.830 - 00:51:29.740

it or, um, um, um, um , they will write it on a piece of paper and put it in a box and tuck it away . I mean, literally tuck it away, uh

00:51:29.800 - 00:51:44.280

and bring it back on Easter. Um For me , nearly, I tend to think of nearly all practices as, um uh I, I, I don't like to think of practices of any practices taboo

00:51:44.290 - 00:51:55.060

. I like to, to try to find the reasons why those are practices in the first place. The word hallelujah, especially with music tends not always , but is often an exuberant thing, right?

00:51:55.070 - 00:52:12.480

It's often buoyant and energetic and in so far as we pare down and lent and have, um, not necessarily a seriousness but a sense of moderation or , or, or less energy then, uh I

00:52:12.500 - 00:52:23.570

think the intent of that practice is less that it's a wrong word to say and more that, um it's a, it's, it's a kind of of um lessening of energy so that when we do say

00:52:23.580 - 00:52:36.480

on Easter, um Hallelujah Christ has risen. Uh It has a particular impact because we haven't heard it for a while. Um That being said, we also know, for example, the words, the

00:52:36.490 - 00:52:51.960

words that we say at um a gravesite at a funeral, even at the grave, we make our song hallelujah. Um And uh so it's usually a little more interesting to me to um to live in

00:52:51.970 - 00:53:04.540

, even with a practice like that, to live in the possibility that we might, um we might still do it um because it may indeed be the appropriate thing. Um But always to be looking for

00:53:04.550 - 00:53:17.490

the reasons why we do things rather than um uh it being a kind of um it, it, it's, I would say if, if, if not having Aliyah becomes nothing much more than a policy

00:53:17.500 - 00:53:29.590

, then we should think about it more. Um And we may decide yes, for these six weeks , we'll the, the, the kinds of expressions we make in worship will be less one thing and

00:53:29.600 - 00:53:40.410

more another thing. Um But it may be that there are slower, is there are somber ones even . Um And we may find moments where those um because as we know they are Sundays in Lent,

00:53:40.420 - 00:53:54.920

not Sundays of Lent, that's uh that's a super vague and um uh both sides of the aisle answer , but that's the way I tend to think. Why are we doing this? Not necessarily we have

00:53:54.930 - 00:54:09.190

to do this or don't have to do this. But what are the reasons for it. Yeah. What a great response. We have probably time for one more question. Anybody just sitting on that question

00:54:09.200 - 00:54:25.960

they haven't asked yet. No one, no one jumping on the opportunity. Well, um, any final word that you'd like to leave us with Eric before as a, a sort of benediction. If

00:54:25.970 - 00:54:37.970

you will or I will, I will just say , well, I'll say thank you all for being here and blessings and all the, if you are a pastor or you're a musician or you're a lover

00:54:37.980 - 00:54:52.180

of worship and music, um I would say blessings in, in the remaining um three plus weeks of this season. Um And uh and whatever it is you're seeing or whatever it is you're listening to,

00:54:52.190 - 00:55:02.940

uh I hope it will be life giving and uh soul steering. And, um, and if you are ever on campus here at Austin Seminary on a Tuesday or a Thursday at 1110 in the morning,

00:55:02.950 - 00:55:14.650

come to chapel and sing with us and we'll look forward to seeing you. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Eric and just a reminder, everyone, again that we will be off next week

00:55:14.660 - 00:55:24.910

for cultivating ideas, but we'll be back on the 21st of March with uh David Jensen. And the topic will be queering theology, gender trouble and Christian faith. So, again, blessings to you all

00:55:24.920 - 00:55:34.340

and for all who are celebrating spring break as well , we bid farewell to you and safe travels. In the midst of that. And um may your Linton journey continue and you'll be blessed in the midst

00:55:34.350 - 00:55:36.150

of it. Thank you, Eric. Appreciate it